The Poison Red Pill, Misreading Proverbs 31 and promoting isolation as virtue.

To begin this series, I’ll start with discussing a post by someone blogging as “Girl with a Dragonfly Tattoo”.  It’s part of some interminable series on Proverbs 31, the love of Christian women everywhere.  I love the Proverbs 31 wife too, she’s a comfort and joy to read about along with all the other idealized portraits in the Bible.  It’s nice to see an ideal written up.  But it’s an ideal.  She’s not a real human woman like Miriam or Leah or even mother of God Mary.

Anyway, the basic overview is typical for Red Pill Women.  You’re supposed to get up super early, that part about servants is meaningless.  There’s of course no *real* obstacles to early rising, you just have to want to be holy enough!  She even references her mother as an early riser, because five year old children are great recordkeepers.

But more to my core points, she references *rich people who use stimulants and have paid staff* as her model for what housewives nursing and getting pregnant frequently should do to be more productive.  This is pretty typical of Red Pill Women.  They do the same thing the men they identify with do of hyperfocusing on a narrow group of privileged people as if they are the norm.  Only here SAHMs are supposed to behave like male executives on amphetamines who have wives, nannies and secretaries and personal assistants.  But the SAHM is NOT supposed to have those things, oh no!

Because a maid is “unimaginable luxury”.  Yes, in this TLDR; post about the Proverbs 31 wife, the OP conveniently declares the servant verses to be metaphorical, but the rising early verses to be worth charts and figures and paragraphs of hectoring.  But fifty bucks every other week so you can stay on top of the household cleaning more easily and have a little free time to try that getting up early?  UNIMAGINABLE LUXURY.  And clearly a teenage homeschooled girl coming over every other morning so you can be a little more rested on known busy days, well, that isn’t even in her blog post.  Even though teenaged nursemaids are a thing, historically.

Red Pill Women don’t appear to be aware there are any other women in the Bible except this one imaginary one and then they ignore the fact that she is a wealthy man’s wife and almost certainly the daughter of a wealthy man as well with her own dowered property/jewels/livestock.  The point of this fictional wife was to emphasize the rarity, the uncommonness.  Such a woman is supposed to be rarer than rubies, a beautiful ideal.  She isn’t supposed to have all her qualities peeled away and converted into exciting new ways to overwork married mothers of young children and deny them the historical levels of other-women support they used to have in the patriarchal days of yore.

I even agree with “Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo” about the importance of sleep.  But you know what?  The average SAHM simply isn’t given the resources to get a full night’s sleep and “go to bed earlier” doesn’t work if you’re combining it with “do whatever your husband wants”.  A lot of men want to stay up late to relax.  You can read old books and see that this is just part of the beautiful sex differences men and women have.  Women used to be allowed to go on to bed on their own so that they could get some extra sleep.

But the Red Pill says that this would not be submissive, respectful, etc.  Essentially all the “tips” she suggests on how to get more sleep assume some or all of a husband who wants to go to bed early every night, kids who sleep well whether nursed or formula fed, kids widely spaced (4+ years apart), fewer than three kids, no special needs kids, a husband who doesn’t want to use electronics or television after hours, and the ability to have private areas to focus on self-care such as the basics of the female toilet and hygiene.  I can keep going, but my point is that under the current anti-social setup most housewives have, her tips and tricks *WILL NOT WORK* for months to years on end.  One bad sleeper can trigger responses in the female body that include phantom screaming or lowered ability to sleep deeply.

So she wants SAHMs to be as productive as executives functioning on very little sleep, but without their resources.  And yet if a woman does prioritize getting that sleep, she’s still somehow a badwife, since she chooses for her example of getting more sleep a woman who didn’t get up early to serve her husband and slept in instead.  Broad social norms are antimatter for Red Pill Women.  But they are the only way women can be protected enough to do their work and serve and love their husbands and families in a consistent way.

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95 thoughts on “The Poison Red Pill, Misreading Proverbs 31 and promoting isolation as virtue.

  1. Unfortunately, it’s not *just* the red pill ideology that espouses the notion that a suburban, post-modern, isolated housewife can easily emulate the Proverbs 31 wife. It’s pretty ubiquitous in most conservative Christian circles.

    As an early riser, the “thou shalt rise before 6 AM thing” has intrigued me of late. I used to think it was kind of mandatory until I spent time around people who don’t rise super early but are yet more productive than me.

    I’ve been this way my whole life, even as a teenager. While most teens are known to sleep in until at least 10 on weekends, I’d be up by 6. That was my sleeping in. It’s just my chronotype, and I have been known to take a half hour nap around 2 PM to fill in that gap created by rising between 5:15 and 5:30 most days.

    The reality is that when you have young children (toddlers especially), you’re probably going to be up by 7 more often than not because there will be no one else up to tend to them when they get up. But you can always read your Bible and pray at night. You don’t have to do it first thing in the AM.

    Lots I could say on this subject, but the biggest thing you said that was worth noting -besides the fact that Prov 31 had tons of resources most of us don’t- is that all of this is moot unless the husband is on the same page.

    Kind of like me with the life changing magic of tidying up, LOL.

    Like

  2. Oh, and I totally forgot to mention something. Even as an anti-social butterfly (that’s a bit of hyperbole), I hate, hate, hate the oft-repeated admonition against wives and mothers desiring to have other wives and mothers to commiserate with.

    That we should be so very busy that we never even miss adult interaction with someone other than the husband a few hours in the evening. And that only if the husband isn’t *bothered* by his wife yammering at him after a long day at work.

    That dang Ma Ingalls has ruined the idea of normalcy for us all…

    Liked by 2 people

    • Elspeth said:

      “And that only if the husband isn’t *bothered* by his wife yammering at him after a long day at work.”

      That’s a very big deal. It can genuinely be a BURDEN to be another adult’s only social outlet.

      Liked by 1 person

  3. Let’s also remember a few other little details….

    For a huge, enormous, gigantic, colossal chunk of history most people were of the serf/servant class – which meant that they worked (let’s not get into slaves, shall we?). Then even with the merchant class, the wife was often a huge part of the business. Upper class women and members of the nobility had nannies and nurses and governesses (ALL WOMEN) and tutors to care for/educate their children; they had cooks and servants (also, many women); they themselves, had roles which didn’t largely involve more than selecting the menu and conducting their social lives.

    I’ve also rather thought that the whole Proverbs 31 thingie was rather more of reminder to husbands of the ACTUAL ASSET a good wife is.

    I have more to add, but it will have to be a bit later.

    Like

    • Maeve said:

      “I’ve also rather thought that the whole Proverbs 31 thingie was rather more of reminder to husbands of the ACTUAL ASSET a good wife is.”

      Right.

      In fact, looking at Proverbs as a mature woman, huge chunks of it seem to be propaganda for monogamy directed at men–telling them not to fornicate in their youth with prostitutes and adulteresses, and to be faithful to their wives once they marry. See, for example Proverbs 5:

      “Drink water from your own cistern,
      running water from your own well.
      Should your springs overflow in the streets,
      your streams of water in the public squares?
      Let them be yours alone,
      never to be shared with strangers.
      May your fountain be blessed,
      and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth.
      A loving doe, a graceful deer—
      may her breasts satisfy you always,
      may you ever be intoxicated with her love.
      Why, my son, be intoxicated with another man’s wife?
      Why embrace the bosom of a wayward woman?”

      And it seems to be a wife singular.

      My read is that the Proverbs 31 woman is an at least middle-aged woman with grown children–note the lack of mention of ANY childcare responsibilities.

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      • More than the lack of mentioning childcare is the line “her children rise up and call her blessed.”

        These are children raised to an age where they can actually look back and appreciate all that their mother was to them.
        Young children are not inclined or equipped to do that.

        So yes. This is a portrait of a life well lived by a woman at a certain stage of life not a snippet of any particular season.

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        • Elspeth said:

          “These are children raised to an age where they can actually look back and appreciate all that their mother was to them.
          Young children are not inclined or equipped to do that.”

          Yes. Heck, teenagers aren’t inclined to do that. It would almost have to be full-grown adult children with families of their own.

          Liked by 1 person

  4. Elspeth said:

    “That dang Ma Ingalls has ruined the idea of normalcy for us all…”

    She eventually got to live in town.

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  5. I have SO much to say on this. I’ll start out by saying that Hagar was not metaphorical, neither was Bilhah or Zilpah. Also, there are lots and lots of other servants in the Bible. The OT is largely the story of rich people. Also, a big chunk of Jewish law concerns how to legally deal with slaves (must not sell slave wife, must provide clothing, food, marital relations or set free, etc).

    Also, re rising early–I don’t know specifically about ancient Israel, but it is often traditional in hot climates to be active early in the day, take a siesta in the heat of the day, and then be active again in the cooler evening hours.

    Here are some lyrics from Noel Coward’s “Mad Dogs and Englishmen” (1931):

    “In tropical climes there are certain times of day
    When all the citizens retire
    To tear their clothes off and perspire
    It’s one of those rules that the greatest fools obey
    Because the sun is much too sultry
    And one must avoid its ultra violet ray”

    “Mad dogs and Englishmen
    Go out in the midday sun
    The Japanese don’t care to
    The Chinese wouldn’t dare to
    Hindoos and Argentines sleep
    Firmly from twelve to one
    But Englishmen detest a siesta
    In the Philippines
    There are lovely screens”

    So, there is probably a siesta in there somewhere that was not mentioned. Also, about the lamp not going out–Jerusalem has much shorter days than some of us are used to up north. A long summer day runs from about sunrise at 5:33 AM to sunset at 7:45 PM. Furthermore, a short winter day runs from about sunrise at 6:25 AM to 4:35 PM (!!!!). In my experience, it is pretty dim indoors with no electric light at the beginning and end of the day, so yeah, you’d be working by lamp at dawn and dusk, without necessarily burning the midnight oil. It is entirely possible that the Proverbs 31 woman got more sleep than most of us, just by virtue of living in a culture without electricity, which has a tendency to tempt one to stay up.

    Liked by 2 people

    • I always think of that song when people go out midday in the summer to do anything. I prefer to work in the morning and evening – and yes, have a siesta around 2pm sometimes

      Good analysis of how hours might have been spent – makes sense to me.

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      • Booky McBookerson,

        Thanks!

        I’m pretty conscious of this stuff, it being July in Texas, and having grown up in the Pacific Northwest. There’s a rhythm of daily activities that makes more sense in a hot climate.

        Like

  6. I can say honestly that when I was a kid, my mom was always up at the crack of dawn. I’d come down at 6 something, and she’d be reading her Bible.

    But, on the other hand, she not infrequently conked out at 9PM or 9:30PM.

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  7. During the school year I’m up before 7 and generally go to bed between midnight and 12:40ish, which makes for just over 6 hours of sleep a night–6.5 at best. However, I sneak an afternoon nap as often as I can. And a good thing, because otherwise I get pretty droopy and ineffective in the late afternoon.

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  8. I’m working hard at getting to Prov 31… I figure maybe by the time I’m 50. Next life stage – business woman. (And yes, Prov 31 was a businesswoman). I feel sorry for young women who are expected to do all of that. I don’t think it was ever meant to be simultaneous. Cumulative accomplishments over a lifetime.

    I’m all for early-to-bed, early-to-rise, and have a nap. Hey, I’ll have a nap any old time, just count me in for that. 🙂

    PS Hard to praise your husband at the gates if you don’t go out of the house. Just sayin’.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Hearthie said:

    “PS Hard to praise your husband at the gates if you don’t go out of the house. Just sayin’.”

    I don’t think she was necessarily at the gates (that’s her husband), but there’s no freaking way she considered a vineyard and bought it and managed it without ever GOING there. Also these verses also suggest a lot of coming and going:

    “She seeks wool and flax,
    and works with willing hands.
    She is like the ships of the merchant,
    she brings her food from afar.”

    “She opens her hand to the poor,
    and reaches out her hands to the needy.”

    “she delivers girdles to the merchant.”

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  10. One of my children was a bad sleeper. He’s been sleeping through the night for almost 2 years now, but I just regained my ability to sleep deeply about 6 months ago because two years of being constantly woken first by him and then by a breastfed newborn wrecked my sleep cycle.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Come to think of it, I actually have orders from my husband not to get up any earlier than I do, because he’s a light sleeper, and my setting up an earlier alarm would disrupt his sleep and productivity for the day. I’d kind of like to get up earlier and shower and dress before school drop-offs, but it’s off the table. I do drop-off unshowered, wearing yesterday’s clothes and without brushing teeth and then do all of that stuff after I get home–a little gross, but it hasn’t killed anybody yet.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I wake up 30 minutes before the kids do to get dressed. I would do what you do but I’m afraid that I might actually have to get out of the car with morning breath and wild hair. My husband can’t sleep through my sonicare toothbrush but luckily he’s up first most days. I’m sure the red pill types will gasp with horror to know that my husband makes the coffee most days and often has to resort to microwaving his own bowl of oatmeal for breakfast.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Microwaving his own oatmeal? How hopelessly beta! A real strong manly alpha male sobs helplessly in the kitchen until his wife gets up and shows him how the buttons work.

        Liked by 1 person

  12. Now I’m actually reading the blog post:

    “We like to equalize everyone’s preferences or lifestyle in order to not offend people, but what I found was that there really are some great advantages that come with early rising, that we’ll miss out on if we choose to sleep in!”

    A woman with an infant ought to sleep when the baby sleeps as much as she can.

    “Making it a habit of waking up early may then be well-related to prioritizing taking care of our bodies and our minds first, so that we can better handle the day’s tasks at hand!”

    Mothers of small children and mothers with kids to get off to school tend to be up early already.

    “When we wake up early and have time to think and plan in solitude, we find ourselves foreseeing possibilities that may crop up during the day (or week).”

    This can be done at night. I try to do my schedule for the day the night before.

    “Go to bed earlier.”

    Both my husband and I can manage a midnight bedtime, but the danger of going to bed any earlier is that either he won’t be able to fall asleep for hours, or I will wake up at 2 or 3 and be wide awake for the next 2 hours. Midnight is just about perfect for us.

    “…but rather the principle that waking up early, while it’s still dark, is beneficial to her life and productivity.”

    Getting up while it’s still dark is going to be a very different affair when you live in northern latitudes with very early sunrise in the summer. Of all things to be a little relativistic about, this is the one. For example, I was just looking up the shortest day in Anchorage, and sunrise is at 4:20 (and sunset at 11:42 PM). There are many cities in the Western world (St. Petersburg Russia–3:35 AM and Stockholm Sweden–3:31 AM) with similarly bracing sunrise times.

    “It may be that certain kinds of people who value and prefer waking up early – the go-getters, the high achievers, the goal-driven – are also the same ones who work harder at their studies and take seriously developing a work ethic of Excellence.”

    My husband is very good at what he does–and he wakes up around 8 AM (generally at least an hour later than me).

    I also have to note that the Bible does not contain exact times for the Virtuous woman’s bedtime and getting up time–so Dragonfly is assuming a lot of facts not in evidence.

    Here’s some tittle tattle about another mom:

    “One of the times we were listening to her talk, she disclosed that her routine in the morning was refusing to help her husband pack his lunch and fix him breakfast before he went to work – she valued that extra sleep more than helping see him off.”

    *sigh*

    “But even when our first son was a baby, I knew I was able to take naps during the day when he would, so waking up to help get my husband out was fairly doable”

    And when you have two little ones that don’t sleep at the same time so you can’t nap anymore?

    “We already know that she takes care of herself, she wakes up early to make sure she is ready for the day and grinds her food, but this aspect of caring for the people who work for her, seeing them, understanding them, adds an element to her personality that is beautiful.”

    Where did “grinds” come from? I do not see any “grinds” in the text.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Well, you can’t expect a grown man to fix his own breakfast, can you? That’s grounds for divorce right there.

      Also, I missed the verse in proverbs 31 about “she bitcheth about other ladies’ private matters on her blog, and the single men rise up and call her blessed” but I guess I have a liberal translation.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Seph said:

        “Also, I missed the verse in proverbs 31 about “she bitcheth about other ladies’ private matters on her blog, and the single men rise up and call her blessed” but I guess I have a liberal translation.”

        Funny!

        Like

      • “she bitcheth about other ladies’ private matters on her blog, and the single men rise up and call her blessed”

        LOVE IT!!! 🙂

        But you forgot “the Titus 2 bloggers rise up also and call her blessed”. 🙂 I’m sure we all know a couple of ladies who ought to know better who do the same thing…..

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  13. I’ve done so many posts on this thread, so please forgive me ladies!

    But I have to mention that I already usually get up earlier than everybody else in my house (and as early as I can talk my husband into). Why isn’t that good enough? And what is good enough?

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    • Why isn’t that good enough? And what is good enough?

      This is the sort of stuff that separates “dogma” from “God.”

      Devout Christian families doing their best with what they’ve got. If it’s good enough for your family, that’s all that matters.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Maea said:

      “Shouldn’t this be a wife’s primary concern, above all else?”

      This is heading a bit into TMI RPW Land, but isn’t it common for the menfolk to want their wives to stay in bed LONGER in the morning?

      TPC has talked a little bit about this, but I would like to emphasize that there is an obvious conflict between the Red Pill Woman imperative to provide SEX SEX SEX and Dragonfly’s early-to-bed-early-to-rise teaching.

      This is typical of Red Pill Land and Submission Land, though–set up conflicting imperatives and watch people fail. The trick is to only give one order at a time, so that victims don’t notice that the pieces don’t fit together logically.

      Liked by 2 people

  14. My husband actually insisted I take a nap during the day and get a good nights sleep when the kids were little. He still does and they are mostly grown. A bit funny, I actually used to balk at this, but it’s very wise.

    As to Proverbs 31, it is actually an exhortation to King Lemuel about how to run a kingdom that draws on the analogy of his mother, so yes, an older woman, likely now romanticized and idealized. If King Lemuel is Solomon, than his mother was Bathsheba. So actually our Proverbs 31wife would also be known for bathing naked on roof tops and having an adulterous affair with David.

    I think what is awesome there is that David, much beloved and favored by God, is also a murderer and an adulterer, while Bathsheba for all her flaws is used as an example of how not only to be a virtuous wife, but how to run a kingdom. That fits in much better with what I know of our Lord and Savior, because there are none righteous, none perfect, none truly virtuous under their own steam.

    The Proverbs 31 wife has taken on a somewhat idolatrous character today, as if we can somehow attain Godly favor by virtue of our own virtue. The truth of the tale is that most women (and men) in the bible are deeply flawed and fallen, but loved anyway. It is not our own virtue that saves us. We are saved not because of who we are but because of who He is.

    Liked by 2 people

    • The Proverbs 31 wife has taken on a somewhat idolatrous character today, as if we can somehow attain Godly favor by virtue of our own virtue.

      Exactly. And the promise to the Proverbs 31 woman is that she will reap praise from her children, her husband, and in the gates. Not blessings from God, or eternal salvation. She will earn the praises of men. So in that respect she’s a perfect role model for the red pill wives.

      Liked by 2 people

  15. When I first ran across the teaching that King Lemuel was Solomon, I too thought:

    “Well…ain’t that something? Another woman of questionable past held up as virtuous. Score another one for redemption!”

    And Bathsheba gets a really bad rap in the alt right/mano/tradosphere.

    I used to split the difference on how much grooming I’d do before the kids went to school. I brushed my teeth and clipped my hair up, and without showering, threw on whatever I was wearing the night before to jump in the car and take the kids to school. Then I came home, showered and fixed myself up not long afterward.

    There are a lot of ways to skin that particular cat, but more than anything it is important to do what suits your family and is in line with what your husband wants.

    About the servants thing, as I have been meaning to get into that but got side-tracked. In this culture, where community is dead and mistrust is high, there aren’t many people who would even want to hire a stranger to come into their homes to clean, cook, provide childcare, etc. Outside of the wealthiest brackets, I don’t see that making a huge comeback even if the average family could afford it.

    However, and this is a key point, as the women in our co-op are currently doing little bits here and there to help out a new mom who just had her 4th. Making time to do things -for free!- to help out those we know could use the help would go a long way. Bolstering frayed extended family ties would go a long way. There are plenty of ways to offer support to mothers of babies and young children that doesn’t cost anything more than a little time and care.

    I believe it was AmyP up thread who pointed out that the OT stories are largely chronicles of the wealthy and noble. The economic and cultural landscape in the West simply does not provide for the ability to do things the way they were done in Bible times so a 1:1 comparison is very, very out of bounds from the get go.

    Liked by 1 person

    • “The economic and cultural landscape in the West simply does not provide for the ability to do things the way they were done in Bible times so a 1:1 comparison is very, very out of bounds from the get go.”

      I Know!!!! And really, would any of us really want to be living back in that time and place? (I’m in the “NO” Camp – shocking, I realize).

      Liked by 1 person

    • Elspeth said:

      “I believe it was AmyP up thread who pointed out that the OT stories are largely chronicles of the wealthy and noble.”

      Yes. And moving a little off-topic, I think some conservative Christians (Catholic and Protestant) make a wrong turn by embracing the large OT family ideal, without noticing that it’s a large WEALTHY family ideal. So there’s an attempt to combine parts of the OT ideal (large family) with parts of the NT ideal (poverty) in a way in which I don’t think they were ever intended to be combined.

      Liked by 1 person

    • I don’t think the lack of community can explain it. It explains the lack of unpaid/familial help, but paid? These days you can hire someone online and demand contactable references and a criminal background check, which seems way easier than back in the day when you might have to settle for someone fresh off the boat from Ireland with an unknown background.

      No, I have spent much time pondering why so many non-poor American women voluntarily lose sleep to clean their own bathrooms and do 100% of their own childcare while spending their money on $40K kitchen upgrades, but I am no closer to figuring it out.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Seph said:

        “No, I have spent much time pondering why so many non-poor American women voluntarily lose sleep to clean their own bathrooms and do 100% of their own childcare while spending their money on $40K kitchen upgrades, but I am no closer to figuring it out.”

        I think once you get into $40k kitchen remodel land, people do often have cleaning help. But $40k house remodel? Maybe not.

        As I’ve mentioned before, I think there are a fair number of $100k a year guys who believe that their wife ought to be doing all the toilet scrubbing. I have a friend whose husband is in the $120k-$130k range who is like that. Yeah, I don’t get it either–we’re talking about spending 1% of household income in this scenario.

        Liked by 1 person

  16. RPW can’t imagine anything outside of their own experience. “It worked for me so no excuses why it can’t work for you” is their motto.

    “The truth of the tale is that most women (and men) in the bible are deeply flawed and fallen, but loved anyway.” Yeah, gasp, imagine that.
    A quote from the book Messy Spirituality:
    “What landed Jesus on the cross was the preposterous idea that common, ordinary, broken, screwed-up people could be godly.”

    This greatly offends the RPW too and they try to nail those of us who are all those thing to a cross.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Stone said:

      “RPW can’t imagine anything outside of their own experience. “It worked for me so no excuses why it can’t work for you” is their motto.”

      Right. And two can play this game:

      –My husband’s got a doctorate. Why doesn’t your husband have a doctorate?
      –It’s too bad your husband isn’t more of a provider.
      –I’ve got an MA. Why don’t you have an MA?
      –We didn’t own a car or live in a single-family-home until we had two kids. Why do you need a car or a single-family-home?
      –My preschooler doesn’t drink juice at home. Why does yours?
      –I don’t use birth control. Why do you use birth control?
      –We tithe. Why don’t you tithe?
      –My husband does most of our home cooking. Why doesn’t your husband cook?
      –My husband can manage all three of our kids for long stretches and he takes two to the West Coast by himself for a week every year. Why can’t yours manage two for three hours?
      –My 13-year-old is reading War and Peace. It’s sad that yours isn’t much of a reader.

      It doesn’t sound very nice, does it?

      Blech!

      And the trick is, that you choose a parameter where you know you can “win.” I wouldn’t, for example, mention that the virtuous 3-year-old who doesn’t drink juice really likes Nutella sandwiches…Or I wouldn’t mention that the War-and-Peace-reading 13-year-old also puts in solid hour after solid hour of Minecraft.

      Liked by 1 person

      • It’s unfortunate to note this kind of “oneupwomanship” happens all the time in the mommy wars…and it’s exaggerated with Christians.

        Liked by 2 people

        • More than that even; it is a keeping up with the Joneses approach, where one must provide meaningless signs of status to demonstrate familial and personal competence.

          Like

      • Heh. This isn’t a “rpw” thing. It’s a social-climber, interfering-busybody thing that has been the training ground for obnoxious mothers-in-law since before the invention of social mobility.

        Liked by 1 person

  17. Here is a good overview of Proverbs 31 from the Just Genesis site which approaches the Bible through Anthropology.

    A quote

    “… the Virtuous Woman is a composite of the industrious, self-disciplined and faithful woman. Such a woman would have been a great asset to her husband. The King James Bible expresses her worth in these words: “A wife of noble character who can find? She is worth far more than rubies.” We wonder if this image of the woman is from the husband’s perspective more than from the woman’s perspective. From the woman’s perspective, this life was one of constant duty to family, household and community. And while her husband and children respect and honor her, this image doesn’t portray much warmth or intimacy.

    In fact, there is no single model of godly womanhood in the Bible. Some were judges who waged war, some were influential prophets, some were rulers’ wives, some were virgin daughters of priests, and some were barren and troubled women. The only thing they have in common is their reliance on God.

    None fit the stereotype of the housewife overwhelmed by dirty dishes, laundry and the demands of husband and children. None seem to be oppressed women, though Feminists insist that their condition under Patriarchy was one of subjugation.[3]

    Instead we find strong, dignified, multitalented, caring women who make a mark for themselves in the world by putting their trust in God. They invest wisely, oversee servants, and manage real estate. They are listed in the lines of descendent, sometimes even called “chief”, as in the case of Anah, Oholibamah’s mother. They are consulted by priests and kings as in the case of Huldah, and by the heads of tribes, as was Deborah. They are responsible for running large households and often save their husband’s estates from destruction, as did Abigail. They were recognized in their communities for their wisdom, such as the Wise Woman of Abel Beth-Macaah. They were respected in their communities for their kindness and generosity, such as the seamstress, Dorcus. ”

    For the full post,read here.

    http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/2010/04/what-makes-woman-virtuous.html

    The whole site is really interesting for understanding Genesis from the basis of Abraham’s Afro-Asiatic ancestors and what they believed in their binary worldview esp. the information on the separate blood work of men and women. This article is esp. compelling.

    http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/2010/04/god-as-male-priest.html

    Liked by 1 person

  18. From Dragonfly:

    “According to a 2011 Northwestern University study, late sleepers consumed 248 more calories a day, about twice as much fast food, and ate half as many fruits and veggies as those who went to bed and rose early (4). “The night owls also had a higher average BMI.” When I was studying sleep and its affects on your brain and behavior in college, I found that lack of sleep, even staying up later than our bodies should be, increases hormone levels that not only make it harder to lose fat (cortisol), we also start secreting a hormone when we’re overly tired called orexin, which stimulates feelings of hunger. To put it very plainly: when we’re staying up too late or sleep deprived the next day, we feel hungrier than our bodies really are, and are more prone to over-eat, leading to weight problems.”

    I think that it’s very questionable to use a study based on night owl college students versus early bird college students and apply that to mothers of families, especially without defining what “night owl” means.

    Experience suggests that the hours involved and the lifestyles are very, very different.

    Like

    • LOL. You know what else causes weight gain, Dragonfly? Stress, and eating crappy food (i.e. the type you have to make on the fly for every meal because you don’t have a moment to yourself since you are so adamantly against HIRING ANYONE TO HELP)

      Liked by 2 people

      • I’m saving this for a future post about the overall economic issues with Red Pill Women, but from her own remarks, she’s lower-middle and practically living in slum conditions. A lot of the Red Pill Women basically tend to not just buy into the broader conservative myth that a 40k household can have a 100k one’s living standard, but tend to present the 40k household as “comfortably middle class”.

        Like

        • It is twice the income of many scientists and professors, and therefor it is enough…if you avoid thinking to much about social norms, their breakdown, etc.

          Like

        • TPC said:

          “I’m saving this for a future post about the overall economic issues with Red Pill Women, but from her own remarks, she’s lower-middle and practically living in slum conditions. A lot of the Red Pill Women basically tend to not just buy into the broader conservative myth that a 40k household can have a 100k one’s living standard, but tend to present the 40k household as “comfortably middle class”.”

          Looking forward to that.

          I suspect stuff really starts hitting the fan with a couple of kids in public school.

          –School supplies!
          –School clothes!
          –New shoes!
          –Field trip money!
          –Contributions to Halloween party!
          –Halloween costume!
          –Contribution to Thanksgiving party!
          –Contribution to Christmas/Winter Solstice party!
          –Contributions to Valentine’s Party!
          –Speech therapy copays!
          –Donut day!
          –Play costume!
          –Physical therapy copays!
          –History fair diorama materials!
          –Science fair project materials!
          –Gift for teacher!
          –Birthday gifts!
          –Birthday parties!
          –Music lessons!
          –Contributions to end of year party!
          –Library fines!
          –Senior trip savings!

          Some of that is mandatory and some is skippable, but even the skippable stuff comes at a price, and it makes the middle class self-identification more problematic.

          Like

        • Right, but dismissing the servants in Proverbs 31 as metaphorical suggests that she’d refuse to hire help even if she was rolling in dough.

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            • LOL! You really can get up early “metaphorically” and submit “metaphorically.” We get up early here, but that’s our own personal rhythm having to do with climate and the amount of daylight. Some people stay up late and sleep in. Do what works for your family.

              Metaphorical submission is an interesting concept. To me it means doing what pleases your husband, rather than the concrete, legalistic rules put forth by culture or other people. Believe it or not, my husband and I once had a terrific argument about housework. I was obsessed and busy cleaning the oven, my version of “submission” meaning a clean house, a perfect house. It drove him nuts, but I was too busy “submitting” to listen to him. 🙂

              Liked by 2 people

              • insanitybytes22 said:

                “Believe it or not, my husband and I once had a terrific argument about housework. I was obsessed and busy cleaning the oven, my version of “submission” meaning a clean house, a perfect house. It drove him nuts, but I was too busy “submitting” to listen to him.:)”

                Yeah, that sounds familiar: I’m going to be the perfect wife to you, even if it kills both of us.

                Liked by 1 person

              • Hahaha that reminds me, I once had an argument with my husband over the same thing. He thought I did too much housekeeping because he thinks my standard is considered immaculate. Some women would consider my standard to be abysmally low, but guess who I’m gonna listen to?

                Liked by 1 person

                • My husband tells me that when he is traveling for business and has a hotel room to himself, he revels in the luxury of being able to spread all of his stuff out on every horizontal surface of the room and makes a big comfy nest for himself…

                  Of course, it’s not that bad if it’s just one guy’s stuff. If it was stuff for all five of us, it would be a disaster to deal with.

                  Liked by 1 person

  19. I’m glad that I found this before I started studying proverbs 31 and start obsessing over becoming that women and not even married yet lol

    Liked by 1 person

  20. This has just occurred to me; it’s something someone else above quoted from the blog:

    “One of the times we were listening to her talk, she disclosed that her routine in the morning was refusing to help her husband pack his lunch and fix him breakfast before he went to work – she valued that extra sleep more than helping see him off.”

    Does this strike anyone else as having a certain EXACTLY THE SAMENESS as other stuff from different RPW blogs? There’s this repetition of the same topic in the same manner (snide, gossipy story about another woman’s private life that was obviously originally told in confidence), and even the tone and the syntax are the same, across multiple blogs and authors.

    Are there people running multiple blogs out there, or are they all picking up language and tone from each other until they sound like clones? It’s uncanny.

    Liked by 2 people

  21. I’m reading this at 9:30 p.m., which is probably too late for me to be up. I’m hoping that hubby can hold the baby while I get a shower for myself, a quick “body shower,” as I like to call it, which means a “No-I’m-not-going-to-take-a-20-minute-one-where-I-actually-wash-and-condition-my-hair-but-just-the-quickest-one-I-can-so-that-I-don’t-smell-bad-to-you-or-myself-for-a-day” one. And I don’t want the baby’s screams from not being with Mommy (he’s in separation anxiety mode these days) to wake the other three if he’s just stuck in the crib during the shower. And we don’t have a large enough house to have the screams be drowned out by distance. And this entire thread is so poignant, because the other day as I went to the bathroom and sighed as a child walked in (as they always do) on my 5-10 minutes of getting ready in the bathroom began, which I tried to do while they all seemed to be occupied, because I don’t wake up early enough and can’t seem to get ready quietly enough to not wake them (which would be the point, so that they don’t walk in on me), it struck me that even servants had time to get ready before they started their days. They even had time to put on appropriate clothes and get non-smelly before they started cooking and cleaning for people. These days I need to change 2 diapers immediately upon waking and try to start breakfast before the whining begins rather than starting the day by getting ready for me. I finally began reading the Bible and taking a few minutes to pray before everything gets crazy last week, realizing that “getting it together” somehow in any other way ain’t happening quite yet. I don’t want to neglect that for the other any more, and thankfully God doesn’t care if I have bad morning breath or anything else. Phew.

    Liked by 1 person

  22. Or I wouldn’t mention that the War-and-Peace-reading 13-year-old also puts in solid hour after solid hour of Minecraft.

    I laughed as one of our 21-year-olds is the only one nerdy enough to sit and watch history documentaries with me- and enjoy it! She is an avid reader too. A bit temperamental, but that I can forgive.

    However, her walking the neighborhood collecting Pokemon? I was a bit annoyed. WTH? Then at the local park I see grown women pushing babies in strollers playing Pokemon Go also and engaging in long conversations with her about the game. LOL. I’m so NOT hip.

    The point of course being, that with rare exceptions, perfectly perfect genius, well behaved children/young adults who are above the popular culture fray may exist, but not in this house.

    Liked by 1 person

  23. Couple of quick thoughts from skimming the comments (can’t remember who all said what so…):

    The point about well rested kids is a good point. A couple of years ago I was looking up info and ran across a home school mom’s blog where all her kids (in her photos at least) were dressed, coiffed, and sitting around the table for breakfast by 7AM, and school started promptly at 8. That is not our life! I am an early riser, but it’s still around 7:30 when the kids get up most days which means breakfast is not before 8 and school? 9 AM at the earliest with some exceptions.

    On seeing your husband off: It’s another one of those issues where our goals can be out of step with what our husbands require. Just yesterday I was scrambling around, behind schedule, not getting it done at the pace I wanted. My husband, who is used to- and fully comfortable with- being waited on said to me, “You know, I can iron my own shirt and pack my lunch today. Chill out.”

    And we don’t even have any toddlers underfoot. I have a hard time believing that other husbands are not understanding, patient, and willing to assist their wives when they are doing the best they can while living on less sleep and chasing toddlers. I am reminded of something Jesus said to the Pharisees as it relates to all the things a wife is supposed to do perfectly with no rest and little relief:

    They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. Matt 23:4

    Like

    • Oh jeez, I worded that comment terribly! Should have read before clicking *send*.

      Of course what Jesus said to the Pharisees wasn’t at all related to the things a wife is “supposed” to do! Let me try again:

      Jesus words to the Pharisees about tying heavy burdens on the people while not lifting a finger reminds me of all the stuff wives are taught they are supposed to do perfectly with no rest and little relief.

      Liked by 2 people

    • I’m one of those weird people who has a personal need to get everybody up and ready very early, or we get all messed up during the morning. School gets out of hand and we start the day off on a completely wrong foot, and it just spins into chaos. I would say that it’s possible that the scenario you mention is one that a person adopts to make sure that things don’t get out of control during the day. Not the case for everybody, but please don’t think they are trying to look holier than thou, or something like that — under the organized veneer could very possibly be a mother who is about to pull all her hair out.

      And we need breakfast on the table and DH’s lunch packed early, too, so we can all eat breakfast. This was my life even when all my kids were small, and it wasn’t so great if lunch wasn’t packed. He liked it packed for him, and that was just the way it was. I did learn to prep it the night before, because I had to do that if it was going to happen. But some days it didn’t. On those days he ate out, but that was really hard on the budget, and so it was in the best interests of all if I packed his lunch each day. And as it is right now, the ironing definitely backs up….and that is not good at all. Fortunately, I now have older kids, and one of them loves to iron, so they iron their own dress shirts and I don’t have to do them, so all I have to iron is DH’s shirts. But a few years ago…..yow…..(for some reason all the shirts looked like they’d been through a wringer, and I really had no choice about ironing. When I had a house full of littles I usually ironed only my husband’s clothes, and the kids and I were just wrinkled because I simply ran out of time).

      I know what you’re thinking — I thought the same, but it is what it is. Very traditionally minded men are similar in thinking — it’s a woman’s work and that it shall forever remain.

      Like

      • No-iron shirts have changed my life.

        I actually wasn’t ironing in the bad old days, but I was hauling a couple dozen shirts a month on foot to the mean neighborhood dry cleaning lady who didn’t like the way my husband left his shirts. Then I’d have no way of getting them back intact as I was running these errands while pushing around a big double jogger…It was a huge nuisance to deal with the dry cleaning people, but way better than actually ironing. (It cost just over $1 a shirt.)

        Wrinkle-free shirts have been the best thing ever–for one thing, we’re able to get by with a much smaller work wardrobe for him.

        Liked by 1 person

        • You know, I got some of those and for some reason they were still wrinkled. I was so frustrated. I got them for my boys, so it wasn’t a big deal, but man were they wrinkled….maybe I misread something, or maybe you need to buy a higher end brand shirt?

          Like

          • “maybe I misread something, or maybe you need to buy a higher end brand shirt?”

            I think it was probably an issue with the shirt itself.

            I’ve done pretty well with lower-end Oxford shirts for my tween boy (Tom Sawyer). For my husband I’ve lately been buying Landsend (which is higher end) and trying to immediately hang them up. I haven’t had any issues with lower end men’s wrinkle-free shirts, but I can’t remember what brands I’ve used.

            The only warning I have is that the no-iron magic eventually departs the shirt (Landsend claims 50 washes for some of their stuff–basically a year), so eventually the collar curls up. Also, the fabric feels a little funny.

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            • We buy the wrinkle free pants because almost all Dockers type pants now are wrinkle resistant. Kind of hard to get away from those. But the formaldehyde in the shirts is a no go since we have a range of options away from that.

              My dad used to have a guy who dry cleaned his shirts for about a dollar a shirt but I can’t find anyone like that around here. And so I iron, which is not much of a hardship most days. I try to do two at a time so that I’m not ironing them every morning.

              Like

            • When I lived in Japan and consequently didn’t have a dryer, I had good success with hanging the washed shirts on their hangers, then giving them a crisp snap, and hanging them out to dry.

              Don’t know how helpful that is, but it’s something I like to keep in mind.

              Like

              • I sometimes do that in my own personal laundry care as well, stateside. It helps, and I don’t own an iron. If you really need a shirt flat then you should probably pay to have it professionally pressed anyways.

                Like

      • Every family has their way, STMA and I don’t think early risers with organized mornings are holier than thou. Not at all.

        And make no mistake, my husband is used to a king’s treatment and won’t hesitate to use the words, “That’s what I have a wife for.” LOL.

        The balance is that he genuinely cares for my well being. My MIL was younger than I am now when she passed away. I am 45. While it may be that there was nothing that would have changed her outcome, my husband has always felt that if she were more attentive to her health and his father was less oblivious to others’ needs she may have survived her ordeal.

        And so…if it seems I am overdoing it, over stressed, stretched thin, or even just need a nap, he has no problem with me taking a day. He usually has to make me take it though.

        I still ended up packing the lunch. LOL

        Like

        • “Every family has their way, STMA and I don’t think early risers with organized mornings are holier than thou. Not at all.”

          I know you don’t; there are just some who think that it’s a façade put on by those who want to look like goody-two-shoes and give sugary-sick lectures to the rest of us. Those people do exist and I think we have all seen them; usually you can see through the façade and its sickly-sweet fakeness. But for a lot of folks it’s a survival technique for a lot of folks because they know when they don’t do it, their day will spiral into a whirlpool of chaos and school will not happen, and the stakes are so high.

          Somewhere I saw a plaque that was a spoof on that old 70’s song about the “new woman”; I told it to a couple friends and we all laughed hysterically, because even though we’re stay home Mom of all these kids and what would be considered the antithesis of the song…..the plaque said this:

          I am woman.
          I am strong.
          I am invincible.
          (and then added, not part of the song)
          I am tired.

          You remember that song? I never heard it until I had a Curves membership for about a month some years back. They played that song there while I was working out on the machines.

          Booky, I just may send out the shirts to the dry cleaner’s. I always send suits to be cleaned about once a year, but the shirts I never considered because I thought it would really go over budget. I finally tossed out my old mops and marched myself down to Wal-Mart and bought a couple of Swiffer mops — regular and Wet Jet. It’s gonna cost more but it will help save my sanity, expense be blowed. I felt guilty for precisely two hours, and then stopped!

          Els, I’ll sure remember your MIL in prayer. I’m sure she is enjoying a far better and more peaceful rest now than she ever could have received on earth.

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          • I think your concern that people may think you’re being sanctimonious for early rising is really nowhere near as serious as the unbelievable level of intense aggressive attitude and worse than attitude that those of us with late chronotypes get.

            No one even knows if you get up early if you don’t tell them. I really don’t care how anybody arranges their day even if they do tell me. People REALLY care if you are not on the proper early morning parenting schedule. They take it as a personal affront and they have zero problems letting you know and even more than that.

            Liked by 2 people

            • “No one even knows if you get up early if you don’t tell them…People REALLY care if you are not on the proper early morning parenting schedule.”

              LOL, true. 🙂 Amazing how bored we are all when we start prying into other people’s affiairs….hmm, maybe they need more to do, like get a job….just sayin’. 🙂

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              • You don’t have to pry into my affairs to know that I don’t get up early, or into our hostess’s, because being late chronotypes is something that you have to get help with dealing with. And nobody wants to give you that help, she and I can’t even pay people to do it. People are *so* sure that sleeping late is a moral issue they would rather punish you for it than accept your money.

                Liked by 1 person

                • That’s sad– sleeping in when you’re a full time SAHM with homeschooled kids is a moral issue? Some people really do need jobs.

                  They probably don’t understand what it’s like to have children with sleep difficulties, or children with disabilities, or personal health problems. Or a husband whose work schedule is off and sleeping in late gives you time to spend time with him before he goes to bed. Wow, some people need to go off into a corner by themselves…

                  Liked by 4 people

  24. This morning as I was rushing around pulling sheets off the bed to get them loaded in the laundry, The Hubs turns to me and says, “I thought you were going to get some household help!”

    Took all I could manage not to turn to him and say, “But honey, Godly Wifeys don’t have household help. I read that on Le Interwebz so it must be true.”

    Seriously, though, I have not read the site of the Blogger in Question, but it sounds as though she’s really in quite a horrible situation and has adopted a coping mechanism of a sort of “misery loves company.” And that’s not even really conveying what I’m thinking – trying to put into words and coming up short.

    Liked by 1 person

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