The Pornographic Missing Stair Shaped Elephant in the Marital Bed

I have a half-finished post briefly outlining that men bringing pornography consumption into their marriages has been part of American married life since World War II.  This of course goes against the narrative that men are “driven” to seek out pornography because mean mean wives are withholding sex as a tool of control and dominance.  But the historical evidence is on the side of the man bringing the habit into the marriage and retroactively blaming the wife when the sex life goes awry.

“Missing Stair” is a reference from a promoter of deviant sexuality discussing the shocking fact that when you devote your free time to obsessively pursuing a sexual fetish, the subculture you create attracts predators and abusers like flies to fresh manure.  The missing stair is the way that the subculture coalesces around the abusers to work around their abusive tendencies and still keep pursuing the other forms of deviance as a group.

This working around a bad actor can occur outside the world of sexually deviant subcultures, and it does occur in settings that are not themselves “missing stairs” to the culture at large.

Which brings me to this post.  Pornography is a huge elephant in the room regarding sexual marriage dynamics and pretending it’s harmless or trivial because “it’s just pictures/video” illustrates just how deep the corruption and protection of evil to feed unrepentant depravity goes.

One of the issues with 2016 marriages is that they involve men and women who came of age just as pre-teen pornography exposure became something that was easy to do accidentally and very easy to do intentionally.

From the male side, when men are exposed from age 9 or 10 to frequent graphic sexual imagery of women, it’s disorienting at best for them to step outside and go to a shop.  The female store clerk isn’t…behaving correctly.  Neither are the women chatting to each other by the cereal aisle wearing the…right clothing.  Or…behaving correctly.  And forget talking to a girl, it’s almost offputting because she just isn’t behaving according to what you are used to women doing constantly for hours per day in multiple browser windows and screens.

And this is at best.  Many men respond to this disorientation by resenting or even hating regular women for not acting like erotic automata.

Christian ministries around pornography are trying to grapple with something that is in some ways more serious than regular brothel visits or having a mistress.  The ladies in the brothel and the mistresses are, after all, actual women who will slip up and act normally sometimes in the course of things.

The missing stair here is of course the idea that the plastic unreality of the porn women is safer, less sinful, perhaps even not a sin within a marriage.  I certainly hope one might see the problem with this reasoning.  Women doing that sort of thing are at best having natural feminine impulses distorted all out of human recognition and reduced to strange and increasingly perverse transactional assaults on the senses.  And at worst they’re being drugged and physically coerced into participation.

Any Christian man saying that some women should exist in this plastic evil world so some men can pretend their wives are the obstacle to an ordered and chaste married sex life is promoting sin and evil and maneuvering around an entire missing staircase of sin.

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77 thoughts on “The Pornographic Missing Stair Shaped Elephant in the Marital Bed

  1. This is a really big deal.

    “From the male side, when men are exposed from age 9 or 10 to frequent graphic sexual imagery of women, it’s disorienting at best for them to step outside and go to a shop. The female store clerk isn’t…behaving correctly. Neither are the women chatting to each other by the cereal aisle wearing the…right clothing. Or…behaving correctly. And forget talking to a girl, it’s almost offputting because she just isn’t behaving according to what you are used to women doing constantly for hours per day in multiple browser windows and screens.”

    I feel like this is especially harmful in the absence of much in-real-life social interaction with women.

    There’s the potential for porn becoming the “real” world while the real real world is just an annoying distraction from porn.

    “And this is at best. Many men respond to this disorientation by resenting or even hating regular women for not acting like erotic automata.”

    Yes–there does seem to be a lot of resentment at women for not acting like live sexbots. And there are more than a few guys online (including at Dalrock) who explicitly talk about how much they are looking forward to having a sexbot of their very own.

    I think porn is the key to understanding a lot of manosphere oddities.

    –the belief that “thugs” and “alphas” are having all the sex
    –the otherwise inexplicable belief that 80% of women are having sex with the “top” 20% of men
    –the virginity fetish
    –the gross assumptions about what all women (including women at church) are doing in their free time
    –the quick leap to suspecting infidelity
    –the belief that average looking women are “plain”

    Liked by 2 people

    • I think porn is the key to understanding a lot of manosphere oddities.

      I don’t think it’s so much porn explaining it, but the behaviour of some of the women around them that makes them “think”. Hell, when I was reading Dalrock and Roissy every day, some of what they wrote seemed to explain what I was seeing in some of my female friends and co-workers. I think the difference is that their misanthropic (and narcissistic) personalities lead them on a path of hate, while a few others including myself decided to take stock of the situation and withdraw while avoiding contempt of women because “they didn’t like me”.

      the belief that average looking women are “plain”

      I’ve jokingly argued that the competition for average women isn’t porn, but it’s the large numbers of women on Instagram that show off nearly everything or the above average women on television that look remotely attainable. Being flooded with images of good looking, non-porn women is enough to flood one’s desires, and lead one to believe that there’s a whole cadre of beautiful women out there, but you’re stuck with the ugly ones.

      Like

  2. Well said. Something else that makes porn a real problem, an addiction must get progressively more demeaning and violent toward women in order to bring that same thrill. So porn is not nakedness, it is not sex, it soon becomes about demeaning, abusing, and eventually destroying the object of your lust.

    Liked by 2 people

    • insanitybytes22 said:

      “…it is not sex, it soon becomes about demeaning, abusing, and eventually destroying the object of your lust.”

      This is starting to remind me of something:

      https://canecaldo.wordpress.com/2016/05/20/on-christian-female-bloggers-ii-the-gold-standard-of-reverent/

      I’m beginning to think that porn explains why “Christian” manosphere guys are so eager to grind their wives’ faces in the dirt and why they have so much trouble dealing with the idea that women have human dignity, too.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Yep, I think that’s very true. Those guys aren’t talking about the faith based definition of submission at all, they’re talking about humiliating and demeaning their wives as much as possible, all scripting out heavy elements of BDSM, right off a porn video.

        Biblical Gender Roles was actually arguing with some red pills the other day about whether or not scripture made it acceptable to anally rape your wife. BGR is a fool, but at least he was hesitant and trying to point out that no, causing your wife pain against her will would probably be wrong.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Hopefully you Protestants will all pardon us a little triumphalism, but this is where the Catholic ladies give a big sigh of relief that we have it in black-and-white that we don’t have to do the gross sex stuff on the guys’ wish list. Because “unnatural acts” are explicitly a no no.

          Whew!

          Liked by 1 person

        • These guys completely ignore the rest of Ephesians. Husbands are commanded to love their wives as they would their own bodies. Would a lot of these guys want to experience pain against their will? I doubt it. Why are they demanding things from their wives they couldn’t demand of themselves? If a husband is a-okay with experiencing pain against his will he must not love his body much.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Maea said:

            “Husbands are commanded to love their wives as they would their own bodies. Would a lot of these guys want to experience pain against their will?”

            Yes.

            Like

        • Yes, humiliating their wives is exactly what they are talking about. Cane Caldo describes a time when his wife knelt in the comments.

          In anticipating this question I earlier asked my wife if she’d mind if I told a story about that. She did kneel once: When she pleaded with me to come home. We both remember it, and we both remember it the same way. That’s often not the case with past discussions. I believe the kneeling stamped it in our minds.

          I did come home, and her kneeling played a huge role in that. It summoned my sense of obligation from the abyss into which I’d tossed it. I didn’t come home immediately, or even agree to in the moment, but I couldn’t shake the chain after that.

          So after a desperate woman begged him on her knees to return he eventually made his way back. I can’t help but wonder what kind of desperate situation he left the poor woman in.

          Liked by 2 people

          • That really was a grievous post and all I could think of of was what a complete jerk. That poor woman, forced to beg her husband to act like a human. How awful.

            Now kneeling or resting at a hubby’s feet out of love, that can be a beautiful thing. In faith, we bend the knee and surrender pride or perhaps collapse in desperation, but that is never done to manipulate a response out of an arrogant little man-god. So to see that Christian concept perverted is really heartbreaking. We kneel because God is good, not because God has an ego bigger than His intelligence and demands constant affirmation.

            Liked by 1 person

  3. “From the male side, when men are exposed from age 9 or 10 to frequent graphic sexual imagery of women, it’s disorienting at best for them to step outside and go to a shop. The female store clerk isn’t…behaving correctly. Neither are the women chatting to each other by the cereal aisle wearing the…right clothing. Or…behaving correctly. And forget talking to a girl, it’s almost offputting because she just isn’t behaving according to what you are used to women doing constantly for hours per day in multiple browser windows and screens.”

    And this plays out online in none of the women are submitting correctly or not submitting enough.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Stone said,

      “And this plays out online in none of the women are submitting correctly or not submitting enough.”

      Right.

      Because is the standard is fantastical.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. I read this part again:
    “And forget talking to a girl, it’s almost off putting because she just isn’t behaving according to what you are used to women doing constantly for hours per day in multiple browser windows and screens.”

    That reminds me of all their talk on fear to approach women cause they might get a nuclear rejection. Woman’s fault because they just aren’t giving off the IOIs like women clearly do in porn LOL.
    I guess one Sunday morning at church you need to get on your knees in the pew and start sucking him off. Now you are talking their language! Clear indicator of interest! And a win-win as you are on your knees showing you understand the gold standard too!

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Cane says:
    “2) Many people cannot accept the reality that sex is a lesser thing than submission. But sex is a subset of submission. You can’t tell them that though, because the biggest thing in these people’s minds is fucking.”

    I love how he deflects that anyone who noticed a sexual angle to his post is basically sex obsessed! Its the only thing on their minds, the only thing they can see.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Re: Caldo

      1. I get the feeling that we’re really, really not supposed to enjoy this.

      If we’re enjoying submission, that wrecks it–it’s supposed to be uncomfortable and degrading…for women.

      2. Somewhat related: They’re always complaining about sexual refusal by wives.

      3. I get the feeling that somebody hasn’t read the Eros chapter in C.S. Lewis’s The Four Loves or didn’t like it at all.

      Liked by 1 person

    • 4. Here’s another issue–I don’t think we can say that sex is a subset of submission. Or if we do, then it would seem that submission is not quite what the Christian manosphere thinks it is.

      Here’s why: “The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 For the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does; likewise the husband does not rule over his own body, but the wife does.” (1 Corinthians 7.)

      So we cannot really regard sex purely as a subset of wifely submission if St. Paul treats a husband’s conjugal rights and a wife’s conjugal rights as an exact egalitarian mirror image (and he totally does).

      Of course, we could go whole hog and treat sex as a subset of MUTUAL submission (see Ephesians 5:21), but I don’t think that Cane Caldo wants to go there…

      Liked by 2 people

      • Yes, if they read St. Augustine on the passage of authority over one another’s bodies, they would see that it’s not just about rendering the debt if asked for but includes the right of governing each other’s chastity.

        “The wife has not authority over her body, but the husband. Why do men exult? Listen to what follows. The husband likewise has not authority over his body, but the wife…Despise all things for love of your husband. But seek that he be chaste and call him to account if his chastity be amiss…

        Who would tolerate an adulterous wife? Is the woman enjoined to tolerate an adulterous husband?…Those of you who are chaste women, however, do not imitate your wanton husbands. May this be far from you. May they either live with you or perish alone. A woman owed her modesty not to a wanton husband but to God and to Christ. “

        Liked by 1 person

  6. What bothers me is when I see people using a wife’s refusal as an excuse for why her husband is sinning, or as I saw at Zippy’s, a refusing wife is akin to pouring gasoline on a husband just before igniting it.

    The fire was ablaze the minute a spouse uses porn regardless of their justification. This bears repeating:

    “But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.” –James 1

    To refer back to the gasoline example, it makes me wonder if maybe these guys want her to get burned in the process?

    Liked by 1 person

    • To be fair to Zippy, his actual example was a wife pouring gasoline on an already-burning husband.

      That said, is sexing him in the Catholic-approved way going to stop him from burning?

      Like

        • TPC said:

          “Nope, because like I said, it’s much more common that he already had some interest in or intentional exposure to porn before marriage.”

          Right.

          Like

      • I think a wife can aid in the process of repenting, and repenting is necessary. Expecting a wife to put out the fire by herself is silly.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Aethelfrith said,

        “…is sexing him in the Catholic-approved way going to stop him from burning?”

        Well, given that being a faithful married Catholic tends to involve a lot of built-in abstinence, practicing Catholics usually don’t treat male arousal as the sort of life-threatening emergency that certain kinds of conservative Protestants do.

        There’s a much greater expectation of self-control and continence.

        Liked by 1 person

        • “Well, given that being a faithful married Catholic tends to involve a lot of built-in abstinence, practicing Catholics usually don’t treat male arousal as the sort of life-threatening emergency that certain kinds of conservative Protestants do.”

          Exactly this. The advice from the Church would be that the man turn to prayer/the sacraments and focus on his relationship with God in this matter to help him both endure/diminish the burning. This would be an opportunity to develop his spiritual strength which can have an effect on bodily discipline. This advice would be the same whether the abstinence has a legitimate reason such as postpartum time or an illegitimate reason such as a wife refusing for frivolous reasons.

          If a refusing wife is likened to pouring gasoline on an already burning husband, how in the world would turning to porn quench the burning? Seems to me that it would make the burning higher and hotter and lessen the man’s ability to endure times of abstinence. For men who pride themselves on their superior use of reason and logic to find solutions instead of the silly feminine way of just blindly following emotions, I would expect to see them counselling one another away from porn rather than looking for reasons to excuse the habit.

          Perhaps the wives of manospherians refuse their husbands because they are disgusted by what they try to push them to do in bed. If a wife is just being used as an actor in whatever fantasy is playing in his head rather than being treated like the real, live person who shares day-to-day life with him, sex is not going to be high on the agenda. It’s hard enough at times honoring the marriage debt after a day of having having young ones attached to you let alone being expected to turn into “Hot, Horny and Ready for Anything” at the flip of a switch.

          Liked by 1 person

          • If a wife is just being used as an actor in whatever fantasy is playing in his head rather than being treated like the real, live person who shares day-to-day life with him, sex is not going to be high on the agenda.

            From my reading, I’ve learned this tends to be the main problem. It would be one thing if the husband agreed to have vanilla sex despite his porn use and consciously made a choice to not treat his wife like an actor. Unfortunately, that isn’t the case. When it comes to extreme issues like porn use people aren’t mild about it.

            Liked by 1 person

          • Mrs H said,

            “If a refusing wife is likened to pouring gasoline on an already burning husband, how in the world would turning to porn quench the burning? Seems to me that it would make the burning higher and hotter and lessen the man’s ability to endure times of abstinence. ”

            One of our contemporary Catholic authors says that masturbating to get rid of lust is like burning somebody in effigy to try to get over being angry with them.

            Liked by 1 person

      • I’d be fair to Zippy as well on this one. He is certainly not of the school of blaming women for every ill a marriage suffers.

        I actually would even give Cane Caldo the benefit of the doubt on his point that kneeling is the gold standard of submission. Because it is the gold standard of submission. It’s why most people, when they really want to do business with God, fall on their faces rather than do their normal deal of say, praying while sitting in a chair.

        The problem with taking the thing too far is that most husbands (mine included because I asked) have absolutely NO interest in having their wives bow before them as evidence of submission. They would happily settle for compliance and respect. And sex, LOL.

        Concrete action over the long term is far more definitive than symbolic gestures of submission such as kneeling. It’s folly to get bogged down on something like kneeling when the simplest route from A to B is for wives to demonstrate their willingness to follow their husband’s lead day to day.

        Liked by 2 people

        • Elspeth said,

          “Concrete action over the long term is far more definitive than symbolic gestures of submission such as kneeling.”

          Yeah.

          A wife who was always kneeling to her husband as a gesture of supplication could be just as annoying as a husband who is always turning up with long-stemmed apology roses every time he does something terrible. That would get old eventually, I think.

          Liked by 1 person

  7. Also, all the side-eyes to “Christian” manosphere guys who expect the Bible to contain specific descriptions of every gross sexual act that is off limits.

    Liked by 1 person

    • This reminds me, there was a time where ALL Christians, regardless of denomination, agreed on the same basics concerning marriage and married sexuality. I did some reading a while back on the expectations of married sexuality from around 1900 (finding stuff is really hard, btw).

      I honestly think modernity and porn has heavily influenced what people think is permissible in the marriage bed. The internet’s made it 10x worse and no one seems to be putting the pieces together.

      Like

      • Maes hit on what I was going to say. The differences between Catholic and Protestant “rules” for the marriage bed only diverged sometime after WW2. Coincidence? I even remember being a young teen and hearing a sermon from our Baptist pulpit about the evils of oral copulation. I wrote about this once at TC:

        https://traditionalchristianity.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/what-is-acceptable-sex/

        So the “anything goes” thing is fairly new. If anal sex doesn’t qualify as abandoning the natural use of the woman (Is that Romans 1?) then I don’t know what does. The pornification of marriage is a very real thing. Not sure I buy the notion of porn use being solely because of a wife denying sex either.

        My husband was about 13 when the Vanessa Williams Penthouse spread was published. He recalled seeing the magazine when one of his friends sneaked his dad’s copy and showed to him and a couple of other friends. He said he knew right then and there that the kind of frustration porn created in him was not something he wanted to deal with, but he promptly went and got himself a girlfriend and never looked back.

        Real women are markedly different from staged sexual images in the same way that real men are markedly different from the hunky handyman who is a profound philosopher and -surprise!- a secret millionaire to boot. But only the latter is denounced as unrealistic while wives are supposed to compete with an ever new crop of sexual images and scenes.

        It’s nuts.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Here’s an NSFW piece from a secular dating guru on the problem of porn.

          http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2012/06/porn/all/1/

          For the more delicate readers who don’t want to click on something unsavory, here’s a quick skim version:

          “–It’s Kinda Killing Your Sex Life

          “So here’s the part that we really need to talk about.

          “Now, there have been studies out there that raise questions about whether excessive (however you want to define that) consumption of porn – and the masturbation that usually follows – actually desensitizes your brain to sexual stimuli that leads to endorphin release.”

          “Porn Makes You A Lousy Lover”

          “When you’re exposed to something over long periods of time, it can color how you think. It can desensitize you. Change your ideas about what’s normal, accepted or even expected. And then, when you interact with the majority of the population that doesn’t have those same expectations, somebody is gonna end up disappointed and upset.

          “And odds are, it’s gonna be you.

          “There’re a lot of guys who have let porn guide their expectations for sex. They think sex is supposed to be like porn sex. And the problem is, porn sex isn’t real sex. In fact, most of the time, porn sex is completely incompatible with real sex.”

          He goes into a lot more graphic detail about how the sexual acts are chosen to be photogenic and open to the camera rather than enjoyable, how porn sex is very unlikely to be enjoyable to the woman (as they eliminate virtually all the visually boring foreplay stuff), and how they do a don’t-try-this-at home express version of anal sex which is likely to cause injury if imitated.

          In short, porn is the world’s worst sex ed.

          Come to think of it, porn may also explain a lot of the feelings of inadequacy and inferiority felt by a lot of less experienced manosphere guys.

          Liked by 3 people

          • Also explains why they think their wives’ reluctance to participate in sex-a-la-porn is just another act of rebellion…. AND explains this overwhelming concern with “dominance”

            Liked by 1 person

            • Maeve said:

              “Also explains why they think their wives’ reluctance to participate in sex-a-la-porn is just another act of rebellion…. AND explains this overwhelming concern with “dominance””

              Yes!

              Also, an interesting oddity is that it has the potential to make men not really believe that real life women can or ought to enjoy sex.

              Around the “Christian” manosphere, it’s treated as being 100% for him.

              Liked by 2 people

              • Well, Amy – in the Christo-Manoview, the whole “two shall become one” really means they become him – his preferences, his desires, his ideas, his vision, etc. She’s just a subset of him, with her only job to submit in everything because God. Actually, I think they’re actually all dying for an indication of disagreement, er rebellion, because then they get to punish/discipline her – which is what they think marriage is really all about. I think it’s kind of fetish-y myself, but then I’m kind of ornery that way.

                Actually, there’s rather a lot about the Christo-Manoview that I find bordering on blasphemous – particularly the kneeling part. I think there are some things one reserves for God and no husband, regardless of how wonderful he is, or how much one loves him, is on a par with Him. And as long as I’m on a roll here, I’ll just say that any man who insists his wife treat him as The Lord has a huge problem, as he has made himself equal to the Lord and, if I recall correctly, there was another being who wanted to be equal to Him and things didn’t work out so well there…

                Liked by 2 people

                • The idea of merging into one person is actually no different from modern precepts about married couples becoming one person and permanently joined at the hip.

                  When the Bible says a man and a woman become “one flesh,” it doesn’t mean they actually become ONE person. St. Paul details what one flesh is supposed to mean, and married couples are a unit and a family that are supposed to be guided as one. Not as one person.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Maeve,

                  Yep.

                  “Actually, there’s rather a lot about the Christo-Manoview that I find bordering on blasphemous”

                  Yeah. I remember seeing a kneeling argument which went, women are willing to kneel in prayer, so OF COURSE they ought to be willing to kneel to their husbands.

                  !!!!

                  This is an interesting example of screwing up an a fortiori argument.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_a_fortiori

                  Here’s how a good a fortiori argument would work:

                  1. You kneel to your husband.

                  2. God is more important than your husband.

                  3. A fortiori, you should kneel to God.

                  It doesn’t work in the other direction.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • “Actually, there’s rather a lot about the Christo-Manoview that I find bordering on blasphemous…’

                  It’s not just bordering on blasphemous, it is already there and over the edge.

                  Like

        • I was actually thinking things diverged a little after WWI. That war seemed to be the start of it all, and by “all” I mean modernity slowly infiltrating everything.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Some believe that things really diverged at the 1930 Lambeth Conference when the Anglican Church opened the door to the acceptance of contraception in marriage. Once the unitive and pleasurable aspect of married sex was separated from it’s procreative function, sex as hedonistic recreation took hold. Men were more able to look at women as tools for their own gratification without the responsibility of fatherhood. No longer did they see the sex act as a sacred act in which the wife could become mother and greatly respected for that role.

            Here is a quote from a good article that shows the devastation in our culture from the acceptance of contraceptives.

            “Paul VI also argued that “the man” will lose respect for “the woman” and “no longer (care) for her physical and psychological equilibrium” and will come to “the point of considering her as a mere instrument of selfish enjoyment and no longer as his respected and beloved companion.” This concern reflects what has come to be known as a “personalist” understanding of morality. The personalist understanding of wrongdoing is based upon respect for the dignity of the human person. The Pope realized that the Church’s teaching on contraception is designed to protect the good of conjugal love. When spouses violate this good, they do not act in accord with their innate dignity and thus they endanger their own happiness. Treating their bodies as mechanical instruments to be manipulated for their own purposes, they risk treating each other as objects of pleasure.”

            The link to the article

            https://www3.nd.edu/~afreddos/courses/264/popepaul.htm

            Liked by 1 person

            • Mrs. H,

              AMEN. You are speaking the truth which the women in the Titus 2 world dare not speak, lest they be labeled unsubmissive. There is one woman whose blog is touted by some ‘spherians (name withheld, I’m sure you know exactly of whom I’m speaking) who NEVER says this. Oh, she definitely talks about birth control and the mindset in order to admonish women, but the hard cold truth is that the act of contraceptive sex involves BOTH parties. Both are equally responsible. But she won’t speak this truth, because it would supposedly be considered “teaching a man”.

              It is pure hypocrisy at its finest. Her writing has no substance because she will not speak all of the truth.

              Like

        • It’s so nuts, Playboy Magazine has discontinued posting nude images. You know times have really gone somewhere else when the internet’s done that. When I heard that on the radio a while back even my jaw dropped.

          Like

  8. Ooh, ooh Amy P:

    I love our county’s library system so much which is why I’m always in there. Anyways, last week I saw this book on the “featured” shelf that was bound in white pleather and the title was written in gold script. I’m pretty sure it was supposed to remind you of a Bible. So I picked it up and it was this book:

    The author’s name sounded vaguely familiar so I googled him when I got home. Then I remembered where I saw the name before. In red pill land. Anyway, I only read about 6 pages before I set it aside to think about it and ask my husband if I should read through it.

    From what I could surmise from that first little bit is that the guy was on his way to a sex addiction clinic to get free from all the damage he’d done to himself after years of porn and game.

    I found that really ironic. Good that he’s seen “the light”, but how much damage has he done to other men on his way to that epiphany?

    Liked by 3 people

    • Good that he’s seen “the light”, but how much damage has he done to other men on his way to that epiphany?

      Haven’t you said something about not setting one’s self as teacher before?

      Like

  9. To be fair, Strauss is bald but had the good sense to shave it clean. And he’s not fat.

    Is 47 old? LOL. It’s certainly too old to be on the prowl for YTH every weekend.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Only 47?

      Wow, that is not much of a testimonial for that lifestyle.

      My husband is only several years younger, but he looks a generation younger than that guy.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Oops! I mistook a picture of a totally different person on the Amazon page for Straus.

        Here’s a revised opinion from his Wikipedia picture:

        –not fat
        –looks about right for his age
        –way bald
        –still way too old to be chasing young women–it must have been absolutely exhausting at his age

        Liked by 2 people

        • Red pill behavior takes it’s toll on men, it ages them emotionally and spiritually, just like promiscuity can age women and make them hard way too young. People become like commodities and in the shopping process, they can lose their own identity, their own sense of worth and value.

          What’s sad about the men is that the culture (and the red pills) tells them this is the path to power, success, wealth. Many of them do tend to wake up in their late 40’s or even 60’s and realize they were sold a lie, that they deprived themselves of the very things their souls really wanted. I’ve now nursed 3 men at the end of their lives and it was painful watching them confront their own regrets and sense of loss. What all 3 of them regretted the most was never having been able to create intimacy and connection with women.

          Like

          • What all 3 of them regretted the most was never having been able to create intimacy and connection with women.

            This recurring theme of no to little social interaction or intimacy with a woman deserves a post of its own.

            It occurred to me today the lack of social skills is a huge impediment against marriage. Sure, when you’re married you’re at that level with one person but they are still a person. They are still another human being with their own personality, quirks, thorns, etc. you have to learn to grow with. A lot of the “pill” guys aren’t taking good medicine because they’re going to take with them the same problems into their marriages and wonder why it’s not working out. The excuse a wife isn’t trying hard enough to relieve her husband of sin, or isn’t trying hard enough to fill in missing voids isn’t the solution.

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          • insanitybytes22 said,

            “What’s sad about the men is that the culture (and the red pills) tells them this is the path to power, success, wealth.”

            And that they have all the time in the world…

            Liked by 1 person

  10. This reminds me of a webinar I listened to last Fall that was very well researched, though not very well-presented (thanks to technical difficulties). And of course it went virtually unnoticed. As does WRAP week (White Ribbon Against Pornography). Ha ha

    Thanks for this post and all the comments. For the longest time after I found out about this being a problem in my marriage (5 1/2 years of COMPLETE and utter obliviousness and trust in my husband’s claims of “never using it and never being tempted to”) I thought it was my fault. Another thing about porn us is NOT only are they sinning in that way, but they lie about it, which is sinning more and adding more pain to the entire ordeal. Not always, but it’s just a big web of disgusting black evil.

    The people who seem to think it’s not that big of a deal need to go on a couple of blogs and just read some women’s comments from wives who deal with this in their marriage. I mean I have read pages of comments and women asking for help, not knowing what to do, and it makes you just want to go cry for days reading what people are going through. And there are so many husbands who totally do NOT care. It is so heartbreaking. ONCE have a read a man comment on a thread who said that he had no idea the depth of pain he had caused his wife until he took the time to read some other people’s stories. He said it broke his heart and he finally “got it,” enough to find the gumption to get help to quit.

    But that would require trying to “empathize” (i.e. Have compassion), which is a women’s “problem” according to some, and is therefore stupid and unnecessary.

    Though I do not believe porn use is equivalent to adultery, the varying degrees are all across the board, and it is clear that it is destroying the marriage bed, especially when a very large amount of women list it as a primary cause of divorce. I’m not sure the exact statistic on it. I just know when reading the man-o-land it is hard to think it could ever be as bad as it truly is. There’s always something the wife is doing wrong, apparently. Well, I asked my H forEVER what I did to cause it, which he said had nothing to do with me, and it was the hardest thing to believe because I was reading things that I thought were from more ‘honest’ and ‘bold’ men, and since he had hidden that part of himself from me for so long, I thought surely he’s not being honest. I’ve finally come to terms with the truth that it wasn’t my fault. Espekcially since I certainly did not get ‘fat’ after 4 babes, and he still finds me very attractive. I have lost muscle but weigh the same I did as when we got married. :/ Thanks for the myth busting!

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    • I had my first four in just under five years. 🙂 (six children in ten years) Yep, it DOES take its toll, although I never had any problems carrying or delivering any of them, and all of them were healthy. I did have horrible morning sickness, though, especially with my oldest. Two under two was the most difficult (my oldest was a very late walker), but they did start walking eventually, and they did get older. I had three in diapers for a couple of months, ten years ago — cloth diapers to boot.

      I had, and still have, a diastasis that really makes me look fat. I didn’t know anything about the “Mummy Tummy” reduction until after I had my sixth. Consequently, I can’t wear certain styles I used to wear B.C. because they now make me look overweight. I had it after my first, and it got bigger with each baby. Contrary to popular belief, it gets worse each time and MUCH harder to correct if you don’t think about correcting it early. The manospherians, of course, would scoff at that and just point to a girl being lazy and/or gluttonous if she ends up with one (and most Moms do). I have seen some whose diastasis disappears really fast, but those ladies are few and far between, and usually have the funds to go to the gym or hire a personal trainer who is trained to deal with that sort of muscle separation…..or they didn’t have one, or they bounced back faster than others.

      It is so obvious how ignorant these men are when they start complaining about how women “get fat” after they have children. The best thing to do is ignore them; they want an audience, so why give it to them?

      Liked by 1 person

  11. I hate my diastasis recti.

    I have been researching the correct way to correct it for a few years, and finally came upon something that really seems to address the root issues. It’s actually called “Diastasis Recti” and it’s by Katy Bowman. Unfortunately, the only time I have to realistically do the correctives would be in the morning before everyone gets up, and that doesn’t happen because I have chronic sleep issues and just want to get a bit of extra shut eye nearly every morning. If I try to get down on the floor during the day’s routine, I get climbed on by multiple children. 😉 The book describes other ways we contribute to our DR just in how we move throughout the day, so that’s why I liked it so much. Hopefully before I get a hernia I will be able to really focus on fixing mine.

    Liked by 1 person

    • It’s easier for me now because I have older kids and they help me out in the mornings — they can get breakfast started so I can walk and do the stuff I need to do to work on it. I did start using a lot of metabolism boosting herbs and roots and I do a series of exercises throughout the day which focus on those muscles alone. They are very quick and easy to do and don’t leave me wiped out like some workouts do. I will have to check out that book — it’s a book, right? I will look in the library; I’m very interested, thanks for the tip!

      Liked by 1 person

  12. To think, I almost missed out on this. 🙂

    As somebody who tends to watch pornography, I’m not inclined to actually blame porn for the behaviour of these men. I could easily be the outlier here, but I’m tempted to argue that these men simply have a coarse personality in general, and their contempt of women stems from that versus years of porn use.

    It’s easy to slip into a mode where average women are no longer as enticing, but that doesn’t mean that one should slip into having contempt for these women because they’re no longer attractive.

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        • It is still wrong, DA. The good thing is that you can get rid of it in your life. Be assured that you will never be judged by all of us, who are sinners like everyone else, and you will be prayed for constantly. While you may not believe yourself as “bad”, and we are not labeling you as “bad”, it is well to think about the fact that God’s standards aren’t ours, and we all must stand before the judgment seat of God.

          Your observation that many of these attitudes stem from a coarse attitude in general, however, is interesting — we number among our friends several who most definitely do not view pornography and their attitudes are deeply troublesome. I agree with you on that completely, but one shouldn’t rule the possibility of pornography. It is very destructive, and I would be remiss if I didn’t call you on it, in charity.

          Liked by 1 person

          • I think we should mention that we live in a porn culture, so one doesn’t need to actively view porn to be impacted by it. Billboards, advertising, TV, it’s everywhere. At Sears recently there was a giant poster of a woman wrapped in nothing more than a ribbon, gazing provocatively at us. So we all consume porn and the attitudes that go along with it, the culture that presents women as two dimensional sex objects designed to sell products and fantasies.

            Liked by 2 people

            • True. I can’t even go fill our five gallon water jugs without being visually assaulted by a lewd woman in a beer advertisement. I quit bringing my son with me and go by myself now because of it. Fortunately I found a new place to fill the jugs yesterday, so I’m going there now — ten cents more a gallon, but oh well…..

              Liked by 2 people

        • DA,

          If you keep on doing what you’re doing, you’re going to keep on getting what you’ve been getting.

          Is that what you really want?

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  13. I just came across a good older piece by Sheila Wray Gregoire:

    http://tolovehonorandvacuum.com/2015/08/when-just-have-sex-is-bad-advice/

    I got into the comments and came across an interesting example of the pornification of marital love:

    The guy says:

    “Early in our marriage, I told Heather something like, “If you ever want ANYTHING sexually from me, I’ll do it. No matter what it is. I will absolutely do it!” She has never asked me for anything outside her comfort zone. I’m pretty safe. But she has never made the same vow to me. It’s understandable. I’m a bit more sexually adventurous. She knows I’ll ask for some freaky stuff. I still don’t understand the fear of the unknown, however. If she would simply say those words with sincerity, our trust issues could begin to mend.”

    Ewwww.

    And then:

    “We husbands don’t want the women of porn. Guess what? We know they’re out of our league. We want our wives. But, and this is important, WE WANT OUR WIVES TO WANT US! We want our wives to be our personal porn stars. If you want to focus your husband back on you, become his personal porn star. And make him a sandwich. 🙂”

    Ewwwwwwwwww.

    The guy has a blog. I’m not clicking.

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