Ace of Spades misses the unseen use of social media to be social offline.

Ace of Spades, a fairly major conservative blogger, writes here that conservatives need to abandon Facebook.

What he misses though, probably because they’re all literally closed, secret and otherwise kept from public view, is that Facebook is where mothers, particularly the SAHMs conservatives make lots of noise about supporting, are arranging their playdates and finding childcare and cleaning help or doing swaps or looking for extra work doing those things, where they are buying and selling stuff, and all the other things that used to be on mailing lists but are increasingly on Facebook.

Small businesses have also stopped using their own webpages in many instances in favor of Facebook.

Women, especially mothers, are using Facebook to arrange IRL stuff, that’s why they can’t quit it. Find a way to make all these things as one-stop shop as Facebook is and craigslist used to be for selling and buying, and then people will exit en masse. Right now I see lots of people leaving, but not the ones who need Facebook for these arrangements. Just single people, and some older folks.

We now need social media to form social bonds locally because of breeding for antisocial and autistic tendencies.  Plus, women are social creatures and that means they want socialness offline too.  I’ve tried to join mommy-only startups, and photo-posting sites, and so on and so forth.  But the critical mass never gets there, and it’s because these SAHMs can’t quickly set something up on their phones with ten different websites.  But Facebook is integrated into every smartphone, so you can easily arrange everything from it.

Conservatives are really unwilling to confront the woman problem, which is not that women need to lead their political movements or even participate in them, but that they need to actually have a real space with status and support for women and they just plain won’t do it and then whine about the consequences of women taking on liberal alternatives that supply what they sorely need.

Draft, so very very open for discussion and disassembly.

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42 thoughts on “Ace of Spades misses the unseen use of social media to be social offline.

  1. “Conservatives are really unwilling to confront the woman problem, which is not that women need to lead their political movements or even participate in them, but that they need to actually have a real space with status and support for women and they just plain won’t do it and then whine about the consequences of women taking on liberal alternatives that supply what they sorely need.”

    That’s a really good point. Conservatives or at least alt right ones, can be very short sighted and unable to see the implications of their own idealism. So women shouldn’t get an education, they should all be SAHM, and all forms of welfare should be eliminated. Then when the husband gets killed and we’re left with a widow and five children, what’s the plan here? There isn’t one, there never is. They can hardly conceive of women even existing outside the context of their own selves.

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    • In theory private charitable foundations would handle this. Of course, the question is would that happen.

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      • There is such a thing as life insurance–so death is relatively easy to deal with as an eventuality.

        Divorce, we’ll put to the side, because divorce is always women’s fault, right?

        However, that still leaves disability as a serious problem, because in the case of disability the wife is left with all of the children to raise, a husband in need of special help (perhaps for the rest of his life), and a very small income.

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      • I’ve been asking your question for years, and am still waiting for a concrete answer. My annoyance with the alt. right in general is there are too many people interested in raising the alarm, rather than coming up with a plan and implementing it.

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  2. I’ve had some similar thoughts. Certainly I’m concerned that Facebook seems to own every social interaction. But most of my woman friends use Facebook messenger chat the way they used to use phone numbers and text messages. It’s very common for mothers to not even exchange phone numbers, and for events to be planned via the messenger function. I’d be missing out on a lot.

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    • I have a friend whose husband decided that his family was too holy for facebook. She is always complaining that she misses things and she seems to be more isolated than is normal, even for a SAHM.

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    • People are willingly giving it the ownership. It’s all what people choose to do with facebook.

      It’s kind of how you can go to a restaurant, and there’s always that one table with everyone’s necks craned down to stare at their phones. Who talks to each other nowadays?

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  3. I think a big part of the problem is that this is really quite structurally baked in to the cake.

    We have never had more exposure to intellectual poison, more “redpilling” and “bluepilling” than with increased information transfer of private and accessible internet. But most people will not acknowledge that because they have no access to alternatives and don’t want to admit how screwed up it is. Other people simply have no way to conceive of an alternative in this context.

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  4. So much is via FB these days… I keep up on quite a bit of family info via FB. My gym puts info on FB long before it hits the regular webpage. Basically, FB is being used like the bulletin board in the center of town these days.

    Which means those five people who still think they’re posting PRIVATE conversations or info should be carefully cosseted into reality… but the rest of us are using it *because* everyone is already there. (My children received lectures on the public nature of the internet long before they were allowed access to the internet).

    It sucks for privacy concerns, because your business is public, and even if you try to keep certain things on the QT, that doesn’t mean your friends will have equal discretion.

    But I think it’s time for a new discussion on privacy anyway. Privacy and community don’t coexist well.

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      • Actually, community cannot exist without some respect for the dignity and privacy of the other members. As we become more technology driven, we are losing community, and along with it, privacy and respect for human dignity.

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        • It is complex to me. The question is, what privacy are we talking about? The ability to exchange the worst ideas and pornography possible, or the ability to not have ones own private difficulties and virtues exposed. The latter, is good, the former is not.

          “growing up as a peasant farmer in Europe, my grandmother lived in a small cabin with 11 other people; they divided the boys’ and girls’ sleeping areas with a large curtain, but otherwise had no real privacy. Back then, having one’s own bedroom was virtually unheard of for any children but the very wealthiest.”
          https://bonald.wordpress.com/2016/04/22/the-scandal-of-the-idea-of-venial-sin/#comment-21160

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        • Really? Because you need to hit my mom up for a little FYI about life in a small town. For that matter, I have a friend in a small town NOW who has had some random neighbor call her mother to tell mommy that she was up late sitting on her own porch. Friend is in her 40s…

          Community means everyone knows your business, if they care to put their ears out. That’s what having a reputation is about. Good or bad.

          Now, *should* we respect dignity and privacy? Certainly. There’s this cliche about not airing your dirty laundry in public. And the Bible is chock full of prohibitions on gossip. That’s because gossip, in a closed system, is deadly poisonous. It can ruin a life. We take it lightly in this day and age because our communities are open systems that we can pop in and out of at will, which makes them much less important, and less invested in.

          And that, IMO, is why our communities are so fragile. It’s not tech. It’s the lack of investment, because we are a mobile society with endless amounts of choice.

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          • Well, I live in a small town, married to a man who was actually born here, so what I am seeing has nothing to do with “living in a mobile society with endless amounts of choice.” What I am seeing is people suddenly engaging in the politics of personal destruction, in the kind of passive/aggressive behavior often seen on facebook, the vicious gossip and bullying so often seen on the internet. Technology really is shaping human behavior, it is making us smaller, meaner, and less community oriented, and creating even more divisions on the ground. Privacy, respect and human dignity are absolutely vital in creating the safety needed for people to create civilized communities. In the absence of respect for privacy and human dignity, we crumble, just like the way gossip destroys lives. It does not require a closed system to thrive, in fact it thrives even better in a system so open minded our brains done fallen out.

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            • I think we may be talking about two different things, as I mentioned earlier.

              But I do agree with you more on the technology aspect. I do not think it has helped things.

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            • Ah, okay. I live in SoCal, in endless movement. You can choose to go to at least three churches of my “denomination” in my town, or at least 30 similar churches. So what’s the deal if your church community disciplines you? Change to a new church, instant anonymity. Same goes for virtually any community. Don’t like your gym? Your grocery store? Your moms’ group? Plenty of choice. Of course all that means that no one rallies around when you have a new baby or sickness *either*. You’re just an anonymous peg. On the other hand, I’ve been in online communities that produced RL help when it was called for. YMMV.

              However, I’m down with “people suck’, and that selfishness is growing, noticeably so.

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            • insanitybytes22 is totally right about the evils of FB in small towns.

              I’m from a small town, and my sister (who lives there still) reports that the effect of FB is just AWFUL in the small town environment. Fights happen that never would have happened without FB, and in a small town, you’re all trapped with each other forever. My sis says that after what people say to each other online, she wonders how people manage dealing with each other when they bump into each other at the grocery store. (And in our home town, you always bump into everybody at the grocery store.)

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              • OH! Now I get it. FB facilitates gossip, and in a small town, that exacerbates the gossip problem, you get some serious sand in the gears. Gotcha.

                People need to learn to keep their mouths shut where others can hear. Discretion is a virtue.

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                • Yeah, gossip plus dumb political disagreements that wouldn’t normally come up in day-to-day conversation.

                  In a small town, FB is a social capital destruction device.

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                • Oh, and the other thing is that with FB, you don’t get an automati cooling off period between times when you see the person IRL. You can just keep on fighting round the clock.

                  Blech!

                  Another “special” thing about FB (which is not confined to small towns) is getting a window into other people’s marriages that you never really wanted. I have a male cousin who is married to a woman who definitely owns a pointy hat and broomstick, and from what I hear, their public FB exchanges are epic.

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      • Hmm…I kind of think they can exist, if people use discretion. How else are people’s social circles shocked when they find out one of the couples is getting a divorce? I think it’s possible to have some level of privacy, or at least space, in a community. Lots of people choose to keep pregnancies on the DL for a while, potential job changes, moves, vacation plans, etc. because they’d rather only tell pertinent people and then let everyone know when they can manage.

        Being highly introverted (and I’m assuming this for most people here), I’d go crazy without privacy and having some space. It’s overwhelming to constantly have people getting into your business. The best way to fry an introvert is to expect them to be gregarious and sharey most of the time…just no. My parents substantially limited their social engagements during my teens, because managing children, a household, and their jobs was enough for them to deal with. My mom eventually told me she wasn’t interested in having everyone know her business and criticize or gossip about her.

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        • Understandable, but even though that kind of restraint may be beneficial to the individual it may not be beneficial to society at large. This is a potential pitfall.

          Of course, this does not mean that one needs to share information; I do not think people were expected to be gregarious, but they were often monitored, and even their hobbies were often criticized.

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          • I grew up in one of those cultures, and tbh I’m not interested in living my adult life in it. Criticizing people’s hobbies? Who has time for that?

            To my knowledge, restraint isn’t the problem– it’s that society has found any level of isolation to be suspicious. This was evident in the Middle Ages, and now introversion=bad. Which seems ironic to me, considering how an inner life or features of introversion, are heavily referenced in many Christian writings.

            Restraint shouldn’t prohibit anyone from living the faith amongst their brethren. Selfishness on the other hand, can function independently of restraint.

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            • A good point there, but that is probably a major reason why monasteries exist; and why celibacy is so valuable. It allows a person to be insulated from his secular community, and allows his energies to be directed towards exclusively godly ends.

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  5. We are not on Facebook here. Mainly because my husband disapproves of the political/informational/people as products stuff that goes along with it. Nothing to do with holiness and all that, LOL.

    It does take me a little longer to get information related to things in our home school co-op, and if I wasn’t a teacher, I probably wouldn’t get it. It helps to be plugged into flesh and blood networks so you’re not forgotten. A couple of other women who are not on facebook miss a lot of stuff. Mass text messages are a helpful stand in though.

    I have heard of some epic wars of words between friends and family on facebook which I think is just stupid. Facebook is not supposed to be a cowardly way to say things you would never say to someone face to face. I thought it was about keeping in touch and all that.

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    • Elspeth said:

      “Facebook is not supposed to be a cowardly way to say things you would never say to someone face to face.”

      Yeah.

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  6. We are not on Facebook here. Mainly because my husband disapproves of the political/informational/people as products stuff that goes along with it.

    That is an unfortunate part of social media. Not just Facebook, but instagram, snapchat, pinterest and twitter too. For some reason people only get worked up about facebook, which is a shame because it is by far the most useful for keeping in touch with friends and family.

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    • My hubs is against social media in general Nonya. He’s logically consistent there. However, 3 of our kids are adults so they do have Instagram and Pinterest (Pinterest is so useful!) but have chosen to skip the others of their own choice. I have Instagram so I can follow theirs, which are not public.

      Our house is extended family contact central (all families have one of those, right?). If that wasn’t the case we would admittedly miss an awful lot. I agree that Facebook is very useful for things like that.

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      • Pinterest is useful, but I tend to spend way too much time there. And that’s before I get caught up in some project that I found there.

        Our house is extended family contact central (all families have one of those, right?).
        I think that most families have this. It is my MIL’s house on dh’s side of the family. Hang out there and you will see everyone and know everyone’s business. I’m too much of an introvert to let that go on at my house. Still everyone, including my MIL, uses Facebook to organize family events. I am ignoring messages about what I should bring to a party and what time I should arrive at a cousin’s dance recital now. One downside of Facebook is that it is hard to pretend that you don’t know about things that you’d rather not be bothered with. They know that you know. LOL.

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  7. I don’t do Facebook on principle. We don’t officially object to it around here, but it would just mean too much electronic time and we spend enough time on the computer as it is. Plus, I don’t want my kids getting on Facebook; too distracting and they already belong to an online chess club through their school, Seton Home Study, so they have more than enough time online. I personally don’t think it’s necessary. I don’t even have text on my phone (the cheapest cellphone plan came without text and I prefer it that way); I tell people to either call or email me. I don’t feel like I’m missing anything, but it has been a problem when people send out a general text and I’m the only one who doesn’t get it. A few people usually let me know via phone or email or in person, and I just assume if I didn’t find out about what was being discussed, it was just meant to be.

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  8. I dislike facebook and don’t use it. IME, one of the major things that bothered me was how people were using it to avoid social engagements, rather than using it to facilitate it in person. Lots of people including myself, have had better success with meetup.

    It’s kind of tricky with jobs because a lot of employers now stalk you with LinkedIn and if you don’t have it, it “looks bad.” This is very true for my generation. I have one only for the purpose of researching companies and keeping in touch with former coworkers. In reality, I’ve had better luck with in-person networking for job contacts and interviews.

    I’m with STMA on the annoyance factor with not getting a mass text or facebook message. Thankfully, most of the people who do that are family and they do call me or let me know. But most people don’t seem too interested in keeping in touch unless you have all the smartphone gadgets or facebook. At that point, I figure if they think it would be too much work to keep in contact 20th century style, they weren’t worth my time anyway.

    What’s interesting in my case is the young adults group I’m part of launched without social media and continues to be sustained without it. Social media is good for branching out and for keeping everyone in the loop, but the committee takes extra steps to do things the human way.

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  9. I like social media, I like otter videos and rainbow food and weird news stories. It is very easy to curate your internets so that they are 100% rainbow otters doing funny tricks.

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