The Poison Red Pill, an Introduction

I am finally going to start fisking and discussing “Red Pill Woman” posts because the political season in the USA has shown that a lot of the craziness the manosphere talks about regarding women’s behavior and thoughts really is more common among conservative women who are not too conservative to vote (Republican).  So for the fishbowl I swim in, it’s 30% of women instead of 10% of women.  Depressing.

Anyhoo, the main issue with Red Pill Women’s advice to other women is that Red Pill women on the internet are so profoundly male-oriented that they can’t give useful advice to other women.   Women repeating bad male advice to women is not useful to women. So I’ll criticize it and point out what’s bad about it.

I’ll also criticize it when people use their own lives as examples of living rightly.  Yes, you can have a clean slate, sort of, on the internet even if you’ve had six divorces and five kids out of wedlock and now you’re a devout Latvian Orthodox Christian at 46, but your advice on how to marry at 24 and stay married should be taken with some shakers of salt.

Red Pill Women mostly don’t introspect about how they got from A to B there.  They just talk about B like they always did it.  Red Pill Men do too, but that issue is kind of resolving itself in real time with other men taking up that task of critique.

 

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104 thoughts on “The Poison Red Pill, an Introduction”

  1. LOL! Thank you for this post. Well said. Something else that’s a real problem with red pill women, they can be incredibly vicious and nasty to other women. I suspect that is why they are part of the ‘sphere, mommy issues and misogyny of their own that they need to vent about. Their own hatred of women (even of their ownselves) makes them unqualified to help other women, because helping other women is not their goal, winning male approval is their goal. It’s very dysfunctional and unhealthy.

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      1. Too bad. We all have major trauma. Life is traumatic. Just the same, you aren’t allowed to revel in bitterness and take it out on others and that is exactly what the red pill girls do.

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    1. Their own hatred of women (even of their ownselves) makes them unqualified to help other women, because helping other women is not their goal, winning male approval is their goal.

      Bingo. I’m suspicious of women who behave this way. Women who try to win male approval is kind of like the female version of “beta orbiters”? What would that be called?

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I think a “beta orbiter” would be orbiting one particular guy.

        White knight? I can’t bring myself to type out the other option–a female version of that portmanteau of “man” and “vagina.” And come to think of it, that doesn’t really make sense as an insult of a woman…

        Having discarded some smutty options that weren’t quite right, may I offer “female quizling”?

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    2. I don’t know if they hate women so much as they are uncomfortable with being women because masculine is right in their minds. They lack femininity. I agree that winning male approval is their goal. My daddy and my husband are both normal men who love, respect and approve of me, so I have no need to seek attagirls from dysfunctional men online. That they do is telling. Red pill women and submission bloggers seem to have awful husbands too. If your husband treats you poorly unless you are bowing and scraping, and submitting through his bad behavior is what is holding your marriage together then you probably shouldn’t be giving out advice as it won’t be helpful for people in fairly healthy relationships.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. This political season I think has shown some of the worst we’ve ever seen in so many ways….

    I wish public discourse had moved as far forward in the last thousand years as many other disciplines … 😛

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  3. TPC said:

    “Anyhoo, the main issue with Red Pill Women’s advice to other women is that Red Pill women on the internet are so profoundly male-oriented that they can’t give useful advice to other women.”

    Yes.

    “I’ll also criticize it when people use their own lives as examples of living rightly. Yes, you can have a clean slate, sort of, on the internet even if you’ve had six divorces and five kids out of wedlock and now you’re a devout Latvian Orthodox Christian at 46, but your advice on how to marry at 24 and stay married should be taken with some shakers of salt.”

    Yeah.

    For one thing, when you’ve got a 24-year-old first-timer husband, it’s a very different kettle of fish than a 46-year-old divorced guy. Obviously, there are many advantages to a relatively blank slate, but when you’re both 24, both of you have a LOT to learn.

    “Red Pill Women mostly don’t introspect about how they got from A to B there. They just talk about B like they always did it. Red Pill Men do too, but that issue is kind of resolving itself in real time with other men taking up that task of critique.”

    Yep.

    I have no idea how you’re going to manage this charitably and without making it too personal, but it really has to be done.

    There’s an enormous disconnect between the manosphere gospel (gotta marry a virgin! no sluts! no divorcees! no single moms!) and the actual admitted life stories of Red Pill women. And I actually give the ladies full credit for mentioning uncomfortable biographical facts that they don’t have to share.

    I sometimes suspect that there’s a causal relationship between the “colorful” backstories and the tryhard present of Red Pill women.

    I’m not perfect, but I had a brief and relatively uneventful dating career, got married at 22, and have been married to the same guy for the past 18 years and am generally pretty nice to him. There–where’s MY cookie?

    Another thing–ever notice that the Red Pill ladies generally haven’t been Red Pilling all that long? Ditto submission bloggers.

    And a last note–hey, husbands of Red Pill ladies. Has it ever occurred to you that if your Red Pill lady ever “frivorced” you, her blog would be considered open and shut evidence that you are abusive? Just saying.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Some more thoughts:

    1. Many Red Pill women don’t seem to have a lot of female friendship in their lives.

    2. They also usually don’t sound like they have close relationships with extended family (although this may be a pose to emphasize their pioneer sturdiness).

    3. TPC mentions a history of trauma. I am wondering if the Red Pill doesn’t represent a sort of deal with the devil for Red Pill women. You give up your dignity, but in exchange, you hope that this marriage will turn out, or that he won’t cheat anymore.

    4. Related–there’s a lot of dependence on formulas. Do A, B and C and everything will turn out perfectly!

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    1. I’m not perfect, but I had a brief and relatively uneventful dating career, got married at 22, and have been married to the same guy for the past 18 years and am generally pretty nice to him. There–where’s MY cookie?

      Lol. I haven’t been married as long as you, but otherwise same here. No cookie for me either. Try posting that he beats, cheats, micromanages or yells at you but that you still iron his underwear with a smile every morning. Then the cookies will come. LOL.

      Many Red Pill women don’t seem to have a lot of female friendship in their lives.

      I consider this to be a huge red flag. When a woman says “I just can’t relate to other women and they don’t like me because I am so nice to my husband,” then you know that the problem is with her and that it has nothing to do with how she treats her husband.

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      1. Yep. Being around an unhappy couple is awkward and unpleasant. A husband and wife who treat each other well is a plus for friendship, not a minus. Probably normal people are picking up on the unhealthy relationship dynamic and avoiding them, and it’s interpreted as “teh feminists can’t handle me!!!111”

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        1. Seph said:

          “Being around an unhappy couple is awkward and unpleasant. A husband and wife who treat each other well is a plus for friendship, not a minus.”

          Right.

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  5. I find the whole “Red Pill Woman” thing to be weird, because it’s just the other side of the same nasty coin. They don’t do anything to distinguish themselves as novel or useful, other than the typical negative behavior associated with women.

    The internet is such a funny place for “clean slates.” Newsflash– NO ONE has a “clean slate.” Once you get your feet dirty, that’s it. I am highly suspicious of people who purport themselves to be these submissive wives who’d never have a different will from their husband, when they’ve been divorced and remarried. They know who they are, too. Those women are not remarkable, they are just typical of what you’d expect from the average woman.

    I’m all about forgiveness and repentance, but in that case wouldn’t they be better of leading a quieter, less blog-opining life?

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    1. Maea said:

      “They don’t do anything to distinguish themselves as novel or useful, other than the typical negative behavior associated with women.”

      Sure they’re useful. Red Pill guys can point to them and ask everybody else, “Why don’t YOU do XYZ like Mrs. Red Pill?”

      “I am highly suspicious of people who purport themselves to be these submissive wives who’d never have a different will from their husband, when they’ve been divorced and remarried.”

      Right.

      It’s especially unimpressive in a newish marriage.

      “I’m all about forgiveness and repentance, but in that case wouldn’t they be better of leading a quieter, less blog-opining life?”

      Right.

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  6. Keep in mind that there’s a strong chance that a red pill woman is in fact a manosphere sock puppet. Matt Forney once made a satirical RPW blog just to attract “beta orbiters.”

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    1. Aethelfrith said:

      “Keep in mind that there’s a strong chance that a red pill woman is in fact a manosphere sock puppet.”

      Yeah.

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  7. Been there and done that on both sides. So much so that I hesitated to even comment, but here goes.

    Trauma? Check.
    Male identified? Check. Spent my formative years in a house of men with no mother. Toss in that I married a guy who was raised in a house mostly of men.

    But here’s the thing. It doesn’t take long to look around you and see that what applied in 1994 -when I married- doesn’t apply in 2016. It helps to have young adult daughters, but still.

    It doesn’t take an emotional expert or logical rocket science to quickly see that farcical fallacy that all women are as wise as serpents (yet simultaneously dumb as rocks) while all men are as harmless as doves (yet simultaneously as smart as Einstein).

    That was a bit of hyperbole, but once the light bulb comes on and you get honest with yourself about yourself, it isn’t long before you find yourself thinking your way out of some things and landing on a balanced middle ground.

    There are no clean slates, as it were and I think everyone knows it. Perhaps it’s my Protestantism showing, but I have far less problem with a divorced and remarried woman learning from her mistakes than I do with one who spent 15-20 years as a ball busting shrew before a middle age epiphany and declaring herself an authority on submission.*

    Something Maea said applies to me and is one of the many reasons why I stopped writing about marriage. My husband and I have had petty disagreements and occasionally get on one another’s nerves like all people who live together. But we’ve never had a major rift or major difference on the direction our family should take.

    Ergo, there really wasn’t a lot for me to offer to women outside of real life modeling (without a lot of words), which is probably more in keeping with Titus 2 than an online “ministry” could ever be.

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    1. The thing with you Elspeth is you learned to recognize if and when you were wrong, put a stop to it, and shared any errors. It takes a lot to know when you’re wrong, and then more to admit it. Have the RPW done the same?

      FWIW, I generally agree with the consensus online that women shouldn’t be setting themselves up as teachers. Likewise, who’s giving the guys the authority to do the same? From my understanding, NO ONE should be doing it without being given the authority.

      Online is just a dangerous animal overall.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Maea said:

        “FWIW, I generally agree with the consensus online that women shouldn’t be setting themselves up as teachers. Likewise, who’s giving the guys the authority to do the same? From my understanding, NO ONE should be doing it without being given the authority.”

        Right.

        Plus, a lot of people take on a teaching position for themselves online who in real life in their own communities wouldn’t be trusted to run a fish fry or pancake breakfast, let alone anything of greater spiritual importance.

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        1. Plus, a lot of people take on a teaching position for themselves online who in real life in their own communities wouldn’t be trusted to run a fish fry or pancake breakfast, let alone anything of greater spiritual importance.

          And even IRL if you are asked that doesn’t mean that you should do so. I was asked to teach in a women’s ministry at my former church and a newlywed marriage ministry with my husband at my current church. My response was basically, “nope.” When my husband said that he thought it was a good idea and that I should consider it, I still said no. Since I am so comfortable telling my husband and my pastor “no,” I obviously should not be teaching about submission.

          Other people’s marriages are too important for someone who isn’t sure of what they are doing to play around in. The very last thing that I would want to do is damage someone else’s marriage with bad advice or even good advice that doesn’t quite fit the situation.

          A lot of the online red pill/submission blogger advice is actually toxic and would probably be just as toxic if it were given IRL. I wonder how many readers took some of that advice to their detriment.

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          1. Nonya said:

            “A lot of the online red pill/submission blogger advice is actually toxic and would probably be just as toxic if it were given IRL. I wonder how many readers took some of that advice to their detriment.”

            Here’s the big conflict of interest I see with Red Pill marriage advice to men. There are two main possible outcomes:

            1. It seems to work

            2. The wife can’t take it anymore and splits. (Logically speaking, #2 can follow #1.)

            In either case, the Red Pill “worked.” Either the wife was at least temporarily cowed (in which case it “worked”), or she “frivorced” him and it was demonstrated beyond all doubt that she was a bad wife and the Red Pill is true.

            So, the Red Pill always “wins,” but the guy following the advice doesn’t.

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      2. There’s one little Missy making the rounds, telling anyone who will listen that my repenting from and cautioning against women setting up little virtual cathedrals at which they are the priestesses is a demonic attack. That I am an unwitting agent of Satan himself, LOL.

        The real life networks thing is a good point. My disillusionment with the virtual ministry angle was composed of many different light bulb moments, most related to my own frailty, but chiefly when I shut up, stopped living in polite isolation from other, and walked my walk.

        Wives came to me- and I really did NOT want that, still don’t really. It has been a learning experience, though. I’m learning the true meaning of Titus 2 and how it is virtually ineffectual boasting in an online forum.

        But books? Yeah…I can do that.

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        1. There’s one little Missy making the rounds, telling anyone who will listen that my repenting from and cautioning against women setting up little virtual cathedrals at which they are the priestesses is a demonic attack. That I am an unwitting agent of Satan himself, LOL.

          UGH. Demonic attack, are you kidding me? That’s bearing false witness. Admonishing people to have a little humility and keep their mouths shut isn’t demonic. The fact you don’t desire this station is a very different attitude from what “little Missy” and company have. Hey, I suppose some people think of themselves when they see “write in” on the ballot!

          I’m with you on the disillusionment. What’s made me more disillusioned is the disconnect I see from online and IRL.

          Speaking of Titus 2– and “Proverbs Wife,” while I’m at it– I don’t claim to be a scriptural scholar, but this is interesting. When you read the entire sections of Titus 2 and Proverbs, very little is actually aimed toward women and the majority of it’s aimed at men. It’s interesting to note how small sections in the Bible have been blown up into unachievable archetypes. I’m not saying they aren’t good examples, or teaching for women– they are. But if some of these people stopped and took a second reading they’d realize they’re all going about it the wrong way.

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    2. Trauma? Check.
      Male identified? Check. Spent my formative years in a house of men with no mother. Toss in that I married a guy who was raised in a house mostly of men.

      Being male identified is pretty common for black women, even when they are raised by a single mother with no man in sight. Black women empowerment bloggers have been talking about that for years now. Trauma is also pretty common. More people should seek therapy.

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      1. Simply refusing to bite back a stiff upper lip and harbor my pain alone was therapy enough.

        A good friend and a husband who didn’t view my emotions as some sort of evidence feminine inferiority worked wonders.

        Liked by 1 person

    3. Elspeth said:

      “It doesn’t take an emotional expert or logical rocket science to quickly see that farcical fallacy that all women are as wise as serpents (yet simultaneously dumb as rocks) while all men are as harmless as doves (yet simultaneously as smart as Einstein).”

      Funny! And very concise!

      But a lot of people don’t see that. I suppose because they’re not actually Einsteins…

      “Perhaps it’s my Protestantism showing, but I have far less problem with a divorced and remarried woman learning from her mistakes than I do with one who spent 15-20 years as a ball busting shrew before a middle age epiphany and declaring herself an authority on submission.*”

      As I may have mentioned before, when a lady starts submitting to her husband (who is only home a couple waking hours a day), and in return gets to start bullying hundreds or thousands of other women 24/7, she’s made a really good deal in terms of return on investment.

      I have problems with the divorced and remarried thing, not even so much from the Catholic point of view as from not wanting to be lectured on wifely submission by a person who is effectively a newlywed and still has a shiny new husband.

      I really bought the idea of wifely submission as a young bride and I honestly thought I was doing it, but experience suggests that it’s possible to mistake the infatuation of twoo love for actually submitting. (C.S. Lewis talks about this in–if I’m not mistaken–both the Screwtape Letters and The Four Loves.) A newlywed couple will be nice to each other in ways that do not necessarily predict the future course of the marriage.

      To use a somewhat objectifying analogy, it’s more impressive when a classic car enthusiast keeps a vintage car on the road and in good condition, rather than somebody going to the dealership and leasing a new car every three years. Of course the second person always has a shiny new car in good condition–but it’s not much of an achievement on their part.

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      1. “As I may have mentioned before, when a lady starts submitting to her husband (who is only home a couple waking hours a day), and in return gets to start bullying hundreds or thousands of other women 24/7, she’s made a really good deal in terms of return on investment.”

        Now there’s a good point! What’s with that??

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      2. I gotta read those C.S. Lewis books, Els…..keep intending to, and then life gets in the way. Not that I haven’t plenty to do.

        In my opinion, the manosphere is poison, and it’s even worse when they start touting “Christian manosphere”. God help us all. Let’s face it, they just plain hate women, and for some odd reason they are hugely in favor of homeschooling. And do they have any idea just how strong-willed and well-versed in pretty much EVERYTHING you have to be in order to do that well?! And have they juggled like a homeschooling Mom juggles?! Methinks not, especially all those unmarried guys who spout off about what experts they are, and then the married guys who don’t have very large families anyway…..I see a bunch of men who probably grew up in broken homes, that’s my take on it, and are carrying serious scars. I see a lot of men who probably have total contempt for their mothers for many various reasons. It brings back a point made that the most influential relationship you have which affects your entire life is the one with your opposite-sex parent.

        To that end, may I take a moment to recommend a very interesting book — The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce: The 25 Year Landmark Study by Judith Wallerstein. A real eye-opener about how destructive broken families are to children. The study tracked several families, some broken and some intact, but with comparative issues. I read it a few years back, and it is VERY good. I think it explains many issues that a lot of these men may have, should they really have come from broken homes. I suspect many have.

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        1. STMA said:

          “I gotta read those C.S. Lewis books, Els…..keep intending to, and then life gets in the way. Not that I haven’t plenty to do.”

          Just stick a book in the bathroom!

          I like The Four Loves a lot. I think it’s a little male-centric (of course) and a little incomplete on marriage, but it’s a really good jumping off point. It’s about how important natural loves are, but how easily they all go bad, and how they need divine love to keep them from souring.

          “Let’s face it, they just plain hate women, and for some odd reason they are hugely in favor of homeschooling.”

          Isn’t that hilarious?

          “Methinks not, especially all those unmarried guys who spout off about what experts they are, and then the married guys who don’t have very large families anyway”

          Yeah.

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        2. The homeschooling thing might come from the fact that a lot of them probably spent their own schooling days being shoved into lockers.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. I have heard of that happening, but I am a second-generation homeschooler, so didn’t see it. However, I do know of at least one man who went through pure hell in high school (locker-shoving and worse), plus a brutally abusive father, and he has never recovered. The consequences of what he went through, unfortunately, have been visited upon the next generation. It’s awful. He didn’t deal with it because, true to form, so many “conservatives” and “Christians” believe that therapy and appropriate psychological help is practically bordering on the Satanic — and his mother was a meek, quiet, truly submissive sweet lady who never stood up to his father when the abuse got bad…..another example of something gone wrong that these folks all scoff at and say would never happen. Just keep fasting and praying and everything will turn out great, sure.

            And if they had awful experiences and are so into homeschooling, then they need to provide the right kind of support and assistance and yes, dare I say it — love — that Mom needs in order to do this thing well. And let me emphasize, the kind that she really NEEDS, not the kind that THEY decide she needs.

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  8. because helping other women is not their goal, winning male approval is their goal.”

    Yes and some think they are mama bear to the boys and have to defend and protect them at all costs. Because of course these men are too weak to stand up for themselves.

    “There’s an enormous disconnect between the manosphere gospel (gotta marry a virgin! no sluts! no divorcees! no single moms!) and the actual admitted life stories of Red Pill women. And I actually give the ladies full credit for mentioning uncomfortable biographical facts that they don’t have to share.”

    There are probably 2-3 I can think of that are divorced women, single moms, but yet they have a big following of men. There are other women though with the same stories and they get shunned. A lot of double standards.

    “I’m not perfect, but I had a brief and relatively uneventful dating career, got married at 22, and have been married to the same guy for the past 18 years and am generally pretty nice to him. There–where’s MY cookie?”

    LOL, exactly. There are a lot of good women out there that go unnoticed, but to the manosphere men if you aren’t boasting online about how great you are then women must not be great. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.

    “Another thing–ever notice that the Red Pill ladies generally haven’t been Red Pilling all that long? Ditto submission bloggers.”

    Leelee of babylon is the latest in this camp.

    “Many Red Pill women don’t seem to have a lot of female friendship in their lives.”

    Yes, Leelee has mentioned this in many posts. Women don’t understand her and gravitates towards men, etc.

    “Related–there’s a lot of dependence on formulas. Do A, B and C and everything will turn out perfectly!”

    Yes, for sure, great point.

    “Those women are not remarkable, they are just typical of what you’d expect from the average woman.”

    And people hate to not be remarkable, the ordinary hum-drum life can be crushing. So take up a blog and create your own fantasy life and get to feel special for your remarkable insight.

    “Keep in mind that there’s a strong chance that a red pill woman is in fact a manosphere sock puppet. Matt Forney once made a satirical RPW blog just to attract “beta orbiters.”

    What Matt did was brilliant. It showed how easy it was to set up a blog pretending to be submissive woman and very quickly he got a following of men. All you have to do is SAY the right thing, not actually be that person and you get attention galore. So, its no doubt that desperate bored housewives put on the submissive act online for attention. It truly showed how desperate and pathetic these beta oribters are to cling to the first hint of any self-described submissive woman online.

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    1. There are probably 2-3 I can think of that are divorced women, single moms, but yet they have a big following of men. There are other women though with the same stories and they get shunned. A lot of double standards.

      Eh, you’ve got to be a manosphere-approved woman. It’s not approval as much as online status. I know, weird.

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  9. I had no idea that there were enough single mother/divorcee red pill/submission bloggers to be worth mentioning. I thought they were all 20-22 year-old virgin brides (or at least had only been with their husbands). I didn’t expect to learn anything from this thread, so that’s an interesting tidbit.

    Overall though, I’m of the mind that whether you’re discussing red pill or alternative right or reactionaries, the overwhelming majority of our culture is leftist, including the “conservatives”. The chances that -short of a societal collapse caused reset- that any of this is going to drive the cultural narrative is just more evidence of a circle jerk echo chamber, LOL.

    Liked by 1 person

  10. In a way, I get most of the male concern about why women shouldn’t have ministries online.

    It’s hard to actually teach important things online, and I’m not sure this is the best way to go about it. Isn’t teaching something supposed to be done in person, and a way to establish relationships and community? I’d think it’d be healthier and scripturally sound to have one-on-one relationships with people, rather than a massive online gathering with a questionable person preaching at the top.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. I am loathe to cast asparagus at anyone giving their best, and I like some of the RPG.

    That said, you’d be surprised at how far just being a decent person will get you. Have you tried being considerate and putting your husband first… instead of dead last and scoffing at everything he says? Reducing your overall level of moaning? I think Scott was calling this “low-maintenance”. This gets you pretty darn far with most RL men.

    I dunno. I’ve seen so many very decent people go to extremes, I think it’s a human thing, and I’m cheerfully willing to let the RPG have at it. They don’t affect my life.

    I don’t blog about marriage anyway. Clothes and Christianity, yes. It’s been said, IMO.

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    1. I dunno, the women who wash up in RPW land are not necessarily seething with contempt and needing help complaining less. Many of them are basically normal and then they are told a bunch of stuff that isn’t going to do anything but make them targets for RL men who aren’t very decent.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I personally find it confusing and questionable when some of them incorporate PUA and Gamer advice into their “teaching.” What the heck is that all about?

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Maea said:

          “I personally find it confusing and questionable when some of them incorporate PUA and Gamer advice into their “teaching.” What the heck is that all about?”

          I have some thoughts on that:

          1. Some people are just plain evil, so discovering new ways to manipulate women is a win.

          2. Less evil people don’t realize that PUA stuff drives away nice, reasonable women and leaves them the dregs. Then they complain about the dregs…

          3. And lastly, there are some reasonable elements of PUA/game/Red Pill. It’s just that the good stuff exists elsewhere and gets called by different names. For instance, outside Red Pill Land, “frame” is called “boundaries.” Also, positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement are fairly basic concepts outside the Red Pill, and it’s widely recognized that one needs to avoid positively reinforcing bad behavior. Duh. What the Red Pill Christian guys don’t get is that that insight applies just as much to husbands as it does to wives or children–bad behavior from husbands should not be rewarded anymore than bad behavior from wives.

          Red Pill guys are often not the most socially astute/psychologically sophisticated people ever, so they are unaware that the insights of Red Pill (such as they are) exist elsewhere. But they need to have the “Red Pill” seal of approval on an idea before they’ll swallow it.

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  12. I had some trouble posting, so apologies if there are any repeats.

    Here’s another gripe I have with Red Pill Women online. Typical story goes like this:

    1. Red Pill couple has big fight.

    2. Red Pill Woman submits to her husband.

    3. Yay! They live happily ever after (until the next fight).

    That does not inspire me.

    I get the feeling that Red Pill women fight with their husbands every bit much as normal women. In fact, given the Red Pill blog storyline, they almost need the fights more than normal women. What would become of the readership if the storyline was just, “Steve wanted toast. I made him toast.”? Boooooring. We need DRAMA!

    On reflection, does this remind anybody else of professional wrestling?

    So much drama.

    (The same goes for submission bloggers.)

    Liked by 1 person

    1. “The same goes for submission bloggers.”

      One of my pet peeves in life is that redpills and submission bloggers have so perverted the scriptural concept of both marriage and submission, that any sane person would rightly reject both. And THAT is a tragedy because women helping women to have positive relationships based on scripture is a good thing.

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    2. “I get the feeling that Red Pill women fight with their husbands every bit much as normal women. In fact, given the Red Pill blog storyline, they almost need the fights more than normal women. What would become of the readership if the storyline was just, “Steve wanted toast. I made him toast.”? Boooooring. We need DRAMA!”

      LOL, how true. Really it is a virtual reality show and you have to keep it interesting to keep the viewers.

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  13. Another issue with submission blogging is that you just can’t really *get* what is being communicated online. Not with marriage. The problem with chicks teaching submission, LOL, is that you can’t really do that without offering examples of submission being given from a difficult place. If you already agree with your man there is no need to submit, if that makes sense.

    So you’re left with a one dimensional picture. Wives with strong personality husbands are viewed as doormats being emotionally abused even if they have a very supportive and loving husband. Count me in that category. The other side is that you have wives who have been overly controlling and condescending to their husbands for years offering submission lessons if you will, to women who may have never really had a problem with being shrewish.

    Without the three dimensional, interpersonal connection, you’re left with little more than something which descends into preening, caricatures, or spiritual posturing regardless of intentions. Unless a woman says what she has to say in 10 posts or less and just leaves the archives hanging there, she’s probably gonna veer into dangerous territory. Most women love talking and attention way too much to exercise that level of restraint once the comment threads start stretching.

    Better to write a book and see what happens.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Without the three dimensional, interpersonal connection, you’re left with little more than something which descends into preening, caricatures, or spiritual posturing regardless of intentions.

      This is a frequent pattern on the manosphere in general. I know this topic covers RPW specifically, but there’s a lot aimed toward single men and women leaving them with an impression that:

      1. Is unreachable, or too idealistic.
      2. Creates various expectation levels, according to individual. Who’s interpretation is right, and who’s wrong?
      3. Is more complicated and impractical.

      It explains why a lot of it comes off as caricaturing– sometimes I scratch my head and think, do they expect people to believe that stuff? They need to get out more.

      Books have been excellent educational tools far longer than the internet, and a lot of authors provide more clarity than most blog authors.

      Liked by 1 person

  14. “Wives with strong personality husbands are viewed as doormats being emotionally abused even if they have a very supportive and loving husband. Count me in that category. ”

    Me too! On the internet and in real life. The tendency to try and portray me as an abuse victim really starts to scare me. Nothing could be farther from the truth and when people portray me as a victim they are implying my husband is a perpetrator. So I protect him and don’t reveal much because I don’t want him falsely accused.

    “If you already agree with your man there is no need to submit, if that makes sense.”

    This is so very true. Many don’t understand that. Submission takes a great deal of courage and strength, it’s often a leap of faith. If you are in agreement and have a husband who has proven himself trustworthy, that’s not faith, it’s simply agreement.

    Like

    1. So I protect him and don’t reveal much because I don’t want him falsely accused.

      This is how it should be IMO.

      I don’t think that a lot of the RPW realize just how bad they make their spouses look. The problem is that if the wife doesn’t talk about how badly the husband treats her because he is “alpha” then she won’t get sympathy from other women and kudos from the men for submitting to her husband anyway. “My husband is pretty nice to me and I am pretty nice to him but occasionally we disagree” is not going to get you a lot of blog readership. Still you’d think that these women wouldn’t spend years making their husbands sounds like horrible people all over the internet just for the attention of strangers online even if they are married to difficult men.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Nonya said:

        ” “My husband is pretty nice to me and I am pretty nice to him but occasionally we disagree” is not going to get you a lot of blog readership.”

        Yeah.

        “I don’t think that a lot of the RPW realize just how bad they make their spouses look.”

        I think some of them know darn well what they’re doing. Broken dishwasher story, anybody?

        The worse their husband is, the more amazing they are for putting up with him.

        Like

  15. I get stuck at the part where anyone takes anybody seriously who identifies using a phrase from a bad 90s movie and I don’t go any further

    Liked by 1 person

      1. I like a lot of trashy pop culture but I don’t take terms from it to describe my philosophy of life. THAT’S WEIRD.

        Liked by 2 people

  16. I was just checking in on Leelee in Babylon and hit paydirt instantly:

    http://www.leeleeinbabylon.com/a-dissociation-story/

    Their youngest upsets a glass of ice water over her husband at a restaurant and he publicly reprimands her for it and manages to be mad at her all evening for not apologizing.

    !!!!!!!!

    What is it with submission bloggers and making their husbands sound like ogres?

    Either the husbands are really ogres (in which case the uber-submission is just going to make them more and more ogreish) or the submission bloggers are being unfair to their husbands.

    How about a little dignity and some manosphere-style “frame instead”? “I’m sorry you got wet, sugar. I’ll find you some dry clothes at home.”

    Like

    1. That was sad and disturbing. She needs to see another therapist. He sounds like an ogre, but people who’ve experienced trauma tend to pick ogres.

      Like

        1. I suspect that some perfectly nice guys get turned into ogres by bad “submissive” wifing:

          Sometimes the “nice” guys are just bullies who only pick on those that they know will put up with it. For example, would Leelee’s husband have yelled at the waiter if he’d been the one to spill the water? It is interesting how many so called alpha husbands only express their “alphaness” by yelling at their wives.

          I can also see how a man who married a normal woman would resent her if she suddenly couldn’t decide whether or not to buy apples.

          Like

          1. Nonya said:

            “I can also see how a man who married a normal woman would resent her if she suddenly couldn’t decide whether or not to buy apples.”

            He told her not to buy red delicious. So she didn’t buy red delicious, even though she herself really liked them. She was being submissive, like the books said to.

            With Captain Janeway, there definitely is the question–your husband married assertive, opinionated you. Doesn’t that suggest that that’s the woman he wanted to live with, not some sort of submissive pod person?

            Like

            1. With Captain Janeway, there definitely is the question–your husband married assertive, opinionated you. Doesn’t that suggest that that’s the woman he wanted to live with, not some sort of submissive pod person?

              That’s the problem with a lot of the pedagogy– they don’t factor that people are different. The thing with women is we are prone to a herd mentality, and there’s a tendency for one or a few women to set a standard and then comes rushing in all the other women to follow it, because “it worked for her”. The following of RPW is an example of sheeple in action.

              People need to realize one woman’s opinion or the supposed agreement between a few women on how things “should” go isn’t written in stone. And to be honest, when you’re still a newlywed or relatively young in your marriage it’s easy to wonder if there’s something you could be doing better as a wife. This stuff can be very influential.

              Wisdom is found in many places, but scrutinize and discern because the computer screen shows you nothing. Be the person your husband married. You have arguments and disagree? So? It happens, and it doesn’t mean the wife wasn’t “submissive enough.” This kind of talk does a lot of damage to young newlywed couples, many of whom are just figuring out how to live an adult life for the first time. I speak from experience.

              There’s a little bit of “submissive means doormatness” stuff being written, because of the awful idea that a wife might have her own opinion and express it. Having an opinion encourages disobedience? Really? I want to ask those guys– did you think you were getting your clone? Don’t they know what happens when a woman bottles up? That’s just asking for a wife to be passive-aggressive, resentful, and disrespectful. Some of these guys– and the RPW– seem to have forgotten marriage involves two, not one.

              Liked by 2 people

  17. Weeel, I kind of laugh at the whole idea that this “Red Pill” business is somehow a revelation of new information about women.

    Cough….Chaucer…Cough…

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Cough….Chaucer…Cough…

      LOL. I try to be understanding about people not having read some books. Everyone can’t waste money on a second major in English lit and I get that some people don’t have free time for reading. But Chaucer was required in middle and high school! The red pill people could have at least read the cliff notes. There is nothing about women in the red pill that should be new information to a person with a high school education.

      Like

      1. Jane Austen is also required if you’re going to write an essay for an exam, and her books are chock full of lessons aimed toward women. Heck, even Shakespeare’s got some good lessons, too.

        But no…we moderns must have discovered everything.

        Like

  18. “I don’t think that a lot of the RPW realize just how bad they make their spouses look.”

    Yeah like talking about their husbands affairs or that he was not a virgin at marriage but her being perfect was….no shame in airing dirty laundry, which is what makes it a reality show.

    Like

  19. Question:

    Does anybody know what the life cycle of a Red Pill Woman/submission blogger is?

    Are they roughly the same or different?

    I do not closely follow the blogging careers of RPWs, but the manosphere seems to cycle between them pretty rapidly.

    Like

    1. Also related, she frames housewiving pursued explicitly because of increased financial risks and unhealthy subcultural norms as great because women feel bad for not being codependent enough. It’s like she doesn’t even understand why women were willing to go against the grain.

      This post is also an example of the RPW problem.

      Like

      1. http://www.leeleeinbabylon.com/nacalt-not-all-cultures-are-like-that/

        “I believe that the women in my church are different because God is at work among us, but I think a part of that is that our social incentives are completely different from the rest of the culture.

        “First of all, women with children are strongly encouraged to be stay-at-home moms. In maintstream culture, a stay at home parent is a luxury for those who can afford it. In our culture, a stay at home parent is a necessity that you *make* work – regardless of your socioeconomic class.

        “This has the effect of squashing women’s not-so-uncommon impulse to blow up their families due to unhappy feelings. To do so would be a financial disaster – if you don’t have a job or even a resume without giant gaps to fall back on, you won’t be so eager to head out into the world a single mother.

        “Secondly, to get a divorce or to have an affair is essentially to send yourself to Coventry – to be cast out of the community. This isn’t a consciously agreed upon thing, but when all of your social connections are with other intact families who believe divorce is wrong, you can’t go down that route and expect to keep any sense of community.

        “Though before you’d ever get to the point of considering divorce, most people in the community would already be rallied around by other families coaching them through the trouble and praying for them. There’s the level of shame and potential ostracism, but before that is a level of caring accountability.

        “I have seen churches where NACALT is in even greater effect – at more conservative churches, I have heard of women who were afraid to ask their husbands when they had scheduled the family to go on vacation because they didn’t want to seem unsubmissive – because to be unsubmissive would be to make yourself a deviant at risk of falling on the outskirts of the community.”

        That last paragraph teeters on the brink of parody.

        The third paragraph is also weird. Very few families can afford to lose a third of their income, let alone half or more.

        Not unrelated:

        “http://www.christiantoday.com/article/the.village.church.why.we.put.wife.of.man.with.paedophile.leanings.under.church.discipline/54687.htm

        Like

      2. This level of codependency has never been historically advocated, and what was taught at the marriage dynamic changed with time. I think this codependency/supersubmissive stuff is a recent phenomenon.

        I’ve read books which contained letters between husband and wives of US historical figures (like inventors, founders, etc.) and the relationship between them was definitely of a partnership where a fair amount of mental sparring was allowed. Men didn’t want doormats or codependents back in the late 1800’s, or the early 1900’s, and they don’t want them now.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Maea said:

          “This level of codependency has never been historically advocated, and what was taught at the marriage dynamic changed with time. I think this codependency/supersubmissive stuff is a recent phenomenon.

          “I’ve read books which contained letters between husband and wives of US historical figures (like inventors, founders, etc.) and the relationship between them was definitely of a partnership where a fair amount of mental sparring was allowed. Men didn’t want doormats or codependents back in the late 1800’s, or the early 1900’s, and they don’t want them now.”

          I haven’t done that research myself, but I feel like the sort of emotional volatility that comes through in these blogs has to be absolutely exhausting to live with if that isn’t your thing.

          How do you or your husband get anything done when you’re emoting that hard?

          Come to think of it, I think we may have hit yet another Red Pill contradiction. On the one hand, the guys want a competent, hard-working wife, but on the other hand, they want to DOMINATE her.

          If she’s so competent and hard-working, why does she need to be dominated? (Not the fun kind of “dominated”–the micromanaging and second-guessing type. I mention the difference because a lot of the manosphere guys think that they’re the same thing. Au contraire!)

          Like

          1. I think the difference is a dominant man has different qualities.

            Men want competent and hard-working wives whom they can trust, and will respect their leadership. Most men don’t want a wife who’s as smart as a doorknob and can’t handle a household on her own. That would be embarrassing. However, I don’t speak for men but I know sane people want to be with others who are capable.

            Liked by 1 person

            1. Maea said:

              “Men want competent and hard-working wives whom they can trust, and will respect their leadership. Most men don’t want a wife who’s as smart as a doorknob and can’t handle a household on her own. That would be embarrassing. However, I don’t speak for men but I know sane people want to be with others who are capable.”

              I can unfortunately speak from first hand knowledge here.

              My parents married right out of the dorms, and my mom never had a household of her own before marriage (although she was the oldest of a biggish family). My mom’s housekeeping and household management have never been up to those that my dad grew up with.

              I grew up watching my dad erupting at my mom over various household issues. The big competence issue was probably always finance–as I recall, my mom had a tendency to write checks and then not record them in the register. This would not have been a huge tragedy, were it not for the fact that the bank balance was never high enough to absorb any mistakes…So it was probably actually a big deal in terms of avoiding bounced checks and penalties. Or when my mom substitute taught, she regarded her entire paycheck as her fun money, without regard for the fact that taxes would have to be paid, so some needed to be kept in reserve. Plus, she did the occasional sneaky clothes shopping trip thing…(But she was a very penny pinching grocery shopper day-to-day.)

              When my mom was doing this stuff, she was a mid-30s/early-40s woman–so she wasn’t a kid. I think my mom eventually got better at money once she was working full-time in the family business and especially after my parents got into Dave Ramsey, but when I was a kid at home, she was very childlike about money in a financial situation. And it routinely sent my dad into orbit. She was really scared of making him mad, but didn’t really understand WHY he was getting mad. From her point of view, it was just coming completely out of the blue.

              I could write a whole book about my parents’ marriage (much later in adulthood, I’ve started realizing she had real grievances, too), but yeah, it’s no picnic being married to an incompetent person. And no, not all women are like that.

              Like

  20. LOL – Apples!

    Here’s how the (not kidding) actual conversation went in my house:

    Him: Hey Babe next time you’re at the store how about picking me up some kind of red apple?
    Me: Sure Sweetie.

    There – issue resolved.

    What’s so remarkable about this conversation? Absolutely nothing, that’s what. It’s how, I’m sure, the majority of husbands and wives converse every day.
    It is not, however, a red-pill conversation because instead of issuing a COMMAND, he made a REQUEST. And we all know that Alpha-Manly-Husband does not make requests; he issues orders.

    In fairness, I’ve actually made requests which were delivered in a rather imperative-ish interrogative: “Grab me that pan, would you Sweetie?” I’m sure it’s lacking the proper deference, but somehow he doesn’t seem to feel whipped.

    Like

  21. Dominant men are not domineering and they don’t get off on the idea of dominating. If a man is dominating and treating his wife like a dolt, that is domineering, not dominant. The two are not the same thing and I suspect that is where the breakdown occurs.

    Dominant men command respect and they can handle their wives’ opinions and thoughts, even if they are different than his own. In 22 years the word ‘submission’ has never been wielded at me, yet -somehow- he has my submission.

    Domineering men demand respect because they haven’t earned it. Whether they should have to earn it or not is a different conversation, by the way, one I am not interested in having.

    But I have watched in real time a wife’s reaction to her husband constantly bloviating about the respect, submission, and obedience he is owed according to the Scripture. Even if it is true, there is nothing “alpha” or attractive about that posture. It reeks of insecurity.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Elspeth said:

      “But I have watched in real time a wife’s reaction to her husband constantly bloviating about the respect, submission, and obedience he is owed according to the Scripture. Even if it is true, there is nothing “alpha” or attractive about that posture. It reeks of insecurity.”

      Yeah.

      Like

  22. Here’s are some speculations:

    While RP people correctly note that a lot of women enjoy sexually dominant men, what they fail to notice is that a lot of men enjoy sexually dominant women, too. In fact, a lot of male complaints about sex in marriage marriage boil down to the fact that the wives are passive.

    There’s a confusion between erotic dominance and dominance elsewhere. In fact, C.S. Lewis says as much in the Eros chapter of The Four Loves: “We should be much mistaken if we supposed that those marriages where this mastery is most asserted and most acknowledged in the act of Venus were those where the husband is most likely to be dominant in the marriage as a whole; the reverse is perhaps more probable.”

    Liked by 1 person

    1. You make a really good point, Amy. Those red pills talk about dominance and women’s submission a great deal, but what truly excites them? Perceiving themselves as victimized, persecuted, abused by rebellious women and an entire world dominated by the alleged feminine imperative. They don’t really want to be dominant, they don’t want to lead, and some of the envy and resentment they have towards women who submit reveals that.

      Like

      1. “They don’t really want to be dominant, they don’t want to lead,…..”

        Yes, leaders don’t spend 6 plus years of their lives pissing it away on the internet going in circles in fits and confusion over women.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. “…going in circles in fits and confusion over women”

          I know, right? I’ve met a lot of dominant men who are leaders. They either completely ignore me or they find me amusing. I pose no threat at all, they have no need to attack me. There is no fear of women in them at all. In fact, there is often some appreciation, some admiration, because they don’t even perceive me as competition. Compare them to the red pills, sheesh I’ve never seen so much insecurity and sheer panic in my entire life! I’ve seriously had to fight the urge to comfort some of them, to tell them to chill out, I’m not going to hurt them.

          Like

          1. Yes I’ve seen them get so bothered by you. It’s comical. And big announcements about banning you…jeez…just ban and be done…its like they are the attention whores. Look other men look at me ban this silly woman roooaar!!!! Watch me go!
            They love drama Like the woman or else they wouldn’t respond. Dominant men don’t respond.

            No need to comfort the lost boys have a wendy…she flutters about to soothe them at every slight offense

            Like

            1. Stone said:

              “No need to comfort the lost boys have a wendy…she flutters about to soothe them at every slight offense”

              I kind of have to wonder about how husbands feel about having wives play den mother to the manosphere. Isn’t it a little threatening (borderline “dread”) to know that your wife has dozens of single guys panting for her?

              I know I wouldn’t like it if my husband saw it as his calling to minister to the bruised feelings of single young women.

              Like

              1. Boundaries are something RPW make harder to enforce for people who have issues with permeable ones. The internet itself makes boundaries more permeable, it’s one of the costs of admission to this type of discourse, but telling and encouraging other women to treat every man as, essentially, authority to be genuflected before is just not going to lead to a land of healthy boundaries in online interactions with men.

                CS Lewis wrote about a woman who wreckt her marriage trying to be the curb appeal to all the men in their social circle in The Great Divorce.

                Like

                1. TPC said:

                  “The internet itself makes boundaries more permeable, it’s one of the costs of admission to this type of discourse, but telling and encouraging other women to treat every man as, essentially, authority to be genuflected before is just not going to lead to a land of healthy boundaries in online interactions with men.”

                  Yeah.

                  Let alone IRL interactions.

                  One of the many things that Red Pill guys don’t understand is that female chastity involves being able to say NO to men and make it stick.

                  http://www.themusicallyrics.com/o/224-oklahoma-the-musical-lyrics/1275-i-cant-say-no.html

                  Liked by 1 person

              2. “I kind of have to wonder about how husbands feel about having wives play den mother to the manosphere.”

                I actually checked in with my husband a few times, because I wanted to make sure he knew what I was reading. He was rather smug about it and said I would just come to appreciate him more. He was right, he knows me well. There is nothing sexually desirable to me about men as wounded birds. It’s the precise opposite of sexual attraction.

                However, there are many red pill women who actually send the ‘spherians photos and have private email exchanges with bloggers and that is definitely a sexual thing. I don’t think their husbands even know. I think some of these women are so desperate for male attention, so desperate for their husbands to reign them in, control them, punish them perhaps, that they’re hoping to get caught. It’s kind of sad.

                Like

                1. If that’s going on, that’s even worse. Just the public face of their interactions is “problematic” enough. There’s just no sense of what is appropriate to say out loud and what to keep off the public-viewable space online.

                  Like

    2. Also a lot of RPW don’t seem to get that you can enjoy those sexually dominant men without it affecting the rest of your life in the slightest. You can have whatever dominance you want in the bedroom and then walk out into your kitchen to enjoy your nice working dishwasher! Sexytimes are not 24/7!

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Seph:

        “Also a lot of RPW don’t seem to get that you can enjoy those sexually dominant men without it affecting the rest of your life in the slightest. You can have whatever dominance you want in the bedroom and then walk out into your kitchen to enjoy your nice working dishwasher! Sexytimes are not 24/7!”

        Yeah. I suppose this is what comes of writing largely for a sexually frustrated single male audience?

        Heck, a guy can even be sexually dominant and LOAD the nice working dishwasher! There are all sorts of amazing permutations possible!

        Like

        1. No, a man should never load a dishwasher! That is un-alpha and leads immediately to divorce!

          I mean, just think about all the couples you know who have fought or broken up because the man helps out too much around the house — I am sure you’ve encountered hundreds. “He just won’t stop doing chores! I had to leave him!” “He kept looking after the children and insisting I go take a nap! It was awful!”

          Liked by 1 person

          1. Seph:

            “I mean, just think about all the couples you know who have fought or broken up because the man helps out too much around the house — I am sure you’ve encountered hundreds. “He just won’t stop doing chores! I had to leave him!” “He kept looking after the children and insisting I go take a nap! It was awful!””

            Funny!

            Something I’ve realized recently is that they are assuming that the couple has a single family home and so there are substantial “man” chores available.

            Back in Realityville, that isn’t necessarily true. My husband and I lived in apartmentish homes for the first 9 years of our marriage, so there literally weren’t any “man” chores. No lawn, and if anything broke or malfunctioned, I’d call maintenance. And no car, either. Had we followed the approved manosphere division of labor, he would have had virtually nothing to do at home for 9 years.

            Liked by 1 person

            1. That’s a good point. And it’s not just single family home living you have to base the “man chore” assumption on, it’s single family home OWNERSHIP–since otherwise a landlord or maintenance is usually responsible for all that stuff.

              But I guess the single family home on one income will just immediately materialize as soon as you take the Red Pill, just like the sexy slutty wife who obeys any man she meets and yet has somehow still remained completely sexually pure until age 23.

              Liked by 1 person

              1. Seph said:

                “And it’s not just single family home living you have to base the “man chore” assumption on, it’s single family home OWNERSHIP–since otherwise a landlord or maintenance is usually responsible for all that stuff.”

                Exactly. We rented a single-family home for years before we finally bought, and the difference between the maintenance responsibilities of renter and homeowner are like night and day.

                Plus, the “man chore” assumptions are based on the idea that the husband is both super handy and is home a lot. A lot of guys aren’t handy or aren’t home enough to do routine maintenance. Hence the existence of plumbers, handymen, yard guys, etc.

                “But I guess the single family home on one income will just immediately materialize as soon as you take the Red Pill, just like the sexy slutty wife who obeys any man she meets and yet has somehow still remained completely sexually pure until age 23.”

                Right.

                Liked by 1 person

  23. You won’t find a dominant man with a blog. If dominant he should be too busy out conquering the world, involved in work, community, family. The nature of blogging seems feminine.

    Like

    1. You won’t find a dominant man with a blog.

      I agree with this in general, if not absolutely. My husband agrees with you pretty much absolutely, so as far as I’m concerned you’re in very good company.

      Writing is for many people a skill/passion that the Internet has made possible for people (including men) to share that on a scale that doesn’t require the level of risk, expense and time that it would to try and secure a book deal. The best writers re usually men. Kind of like the best cooking/chefs. More women do it, but men are more likely yo excel at it.

      But blogging is very emotive, no matter who does it. I find contradictions of thought even on the most apparently rational posts some guys write. So it is a more feminine thing for the most part..

      Like

      1. “The best writers re usually men. Kind of like the best cooking/chefs”

        I’ve always found that interesting with cooking. Its true, the top chefs are men, yet women are expected to be the chef in the home. Really chores around the the house should be divided up by skill and/or who has the time rather than traditional sex roles.

        Back to blogging–it is more of a journal/diary style and especially so for those who blog on personal things. Makes sense why “mommy bloggers” is a thing. Its just a natural medium for women.

        Like

    2. I agree. The same for the men posting comments and whining about women for years on end.

      You also won’t find a dominant man with the time or inclination to micromanage his wife or worry about whether or not she put knives in the dishwasher. You certainly won’t find one thinking up ways to punish or “discipline” his wife for not keeping house his way.

      Like

    3. Dominant men don’t care about who thinks what of them, especially if it’s emotive.

      “Ain’t got no time for that shit.”

      Liked by 1 person

  24. You should take a look at Cane Caldo’s two newest posts. Very “stay in the kitchen”-y in tone.

    Like

    1. Had a look at the posts. Oh, Lord in heaven, what is this world coming to. Even among people upholding morals and faith.
      I remember some exchanges from a year ago, and they were anything but edifying. He’s a piece of work. If his wife is happy and his daughters are happy, then I guess that’s their business. But he is definitely “interesting”……become more bizzare every passing month, no wonder he banned women from commenting.
      Anyway, let’s just leave it at that. No point in dissecting it and getting concerned about it, because it will accomplish nothing and only give him a platform on which to perform, which is precisely what he wants. Move on and carry on.

      Like

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